Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000) EG/EH/EJ/EK/EM1 Discussion

92 si 12mpg!!!

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Old Nov 3, 2018 | 02:03 PM
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Default 92 si 12mpg!!!

Okay so I need help in figuring out why I am getting only about 10-15 mpg on my 92 d16 motor!!!! I've done a couple things to it maintenance wise because it wouldn't start kinda still doesn't unless I throttle it. But anywho I changed the distributor cap and rotor , spark plugs and wires ,map and tps sensor, fuel filter and fuel pump. The only performance part was the fuel pump its a kemso 340lph. But could that really be it? What do you guys think?
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Old Nov 3, 2018 | 06:45 PM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

There is absolutely NO reason for you to have a 340 lph fuel pump feeding an otherwise stock D16 engine. It isn't your only problem, but it darn sure isn't helping your fuel economy. Stop throwing parts at it and focus on monitoring the short term and long term fuel trims. Do you have any codes ??? Have you checked your mechanical timing (not distributor timing although that wouldn't hurt to check too) ???
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Old Nov 3, 2018 | 08:06 PM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

What D16 motor and ECU?
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 01:18 AM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

Alright I will remove the pump when I get a chance. Yeah it's throwing an o2 sensor code but I changed it twice and its still telling me the sensor is bad. No I haven't checked my timing kinda don't really know how to do that. And its a d16z6 motor not sure on the ecu I'm guessing it's a stock one. Thanks guys
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 04:01 AM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

Post the actual CEL code.

Codes don't tell you parts to replace. They tell you what circuit to troubleshoot the problem.

Last edited by muellersfan; Nov 12, 2018 at 07:11 AM.
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 04:05 AM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

I think the code was 41(heated oxygen sensor heater)
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 04:25 AM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

How do the plugs look? Sounds like a map sensor could be telling the car car to dump to much fuel. Bigger Fuel pump should not matter as long as the fuel pressure is set at 43, this is more computer or sensor related
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 04:27 AM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

Originally Posted by RobertoHdz
I think the code was 41(heated oxygen sensor heater)
The O2 sensor has 4 wires. Two wires are for the heater element and the remaining two wires are for O2 sensing. Test the two heater wires for power and ground using a multimeter.
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 04:33 AM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

I will take a look at the plugs and the o2 wires when I get a chance I'll be working the next couple days. How can I tell what pressure my fuel is at?
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 05:00 AM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

Is your civic running well otherwise? You’re the second person on here in as many weeks complaining about an eg getting less than 20mpg.... there’s so many factors that go into getting decent mpg that it’s hard to say that it’s any ONE thing..... The o2 sensor, ect sensor👀, map sensor, vacuum connections, pcv and egr systems, ignition timing, valve condition, spark plug heat rating and gap spec, plug wire condition, exhaust piping, transmission gearing, distributor, fuel pump, fuel type, fuel filter, air filter, oil weight, wheel size and weight, tire type and condition, altitude, ambient temperature, accessory pulley drag, and driving style all play a part. It could be one thing or it could be a certain combination of factors that’s causing you poor efficiency.
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 05:20 AM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

Yeah I would say it's running pretty good the only thing thats is in the mornings I when I turn my car on I have to throttle the gas to start it and when i run at low rpms and hold it at like 1-1.5k rpms in 1st and 2nd gear it starts to want to jerk
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 11:23 AM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

Unplug your ect sensor (under the distributor) and start it up. This will cause a CEL.... but let us know if there’s improvement.
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 02:16 PM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

Unplugged the ect and the car wouldnt stay running unless I throttled the pedal
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 04:21 PM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

Originally Posted by RobertoHdz
Unplugged the ect and the car wouldnt stay running unless I throttled the pedal
Okay,is that any different from what it was doing when plugged in?
Nevertheless, that’s not normal. I’m thinking your aftermarket pump is the problem.
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 04:28 PM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

Well my car would eventually start and stay running with out the pedal throttling with the ect plugged in. Are you saying the car should stay running even with the ect unplugged? And I will be removing the pump when I get a chance and putting a stock one in
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 07:46 PM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

Originally Posted by RobertoHdz
Well my car would eventually start and stay running with out the pedal throttling with the ect plugged in. Are you saying the car should stay running even with the ect unplugged? And I will be removing the pump when I get a chance and putting a stock one in
unless your fuel regulator is not working , your pump should not be the issue. Think about your fuel pump like a can of coke, your stock is only 12oz but your new one would be a 2liter. You don’t have to drink the whole thing just because it’s there.... it’s reserve when needed. As long as your fuel pressure is at 43, you could be running a pump from a funny car and it would not matter. Only way to know for sure is add a fuel gauge to your car, but I’m having my doubts about that being the problem
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 08:03 PM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

Originally Posted by turboLScrx


unless your fuel regulator is not working , your pump should not be the issue. Think about your fuel pump like a can of coke, your stock is only 12oz but your new one would be a 2liter. You don’t have to drink the whole thing just because it’s there.... it’s reserve when needed. As long as your fuel pressure is at 43, you could be running a pump from a funny car and it would not matter. Only way to know for sure is add a fuel gauge to your car, but I’m having my doubts about that being the problem
Good theory but you forgot the "fluid dynamics" portion of the calculations. When you increase the volume of liquid pumped through the same size hose, the pressure increases as well. The stock fuel pump creates fuel pressures around 34psi at idle under vacuum, whereas a Walbro 255 pump creates 46psi under the same conditions. The 340 will be even higher... essentially over powering the stock fuel pressure regulator.

The O2 heater circuit not working is a problem... the O2 sensor cannot function properly if it not warmed to at least 600' F. An exhaust leak can give false readings to the ECU and increase the fuel delivery to the engine which adversely affects the fuel economy. Low ECT readings would make the ECU think that the car is essentially operating like at cold start... also creating poor fuel economy. Odd IAT readings can create the same issues. You need the ability to monitor real time data while the engine is running to effectively diagnose these possibilities.
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Old Nov 5, 2018 | 02:46 AM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

I think I'm going to just remove the pump just to take that out of the equation. Is there a way to monitor all that on a 92? Or would I have to take it to a shop?
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Old Nov 5, 2018 | 02:55 AM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

Originally Posted by RobertoHdz
Well my car would eventually start and stay running with out the pedal throttling with the ect plugged in. Are you saying the car should stay running even with the ect unplugged? And I will be removing the pump when I get a chance and putting a stock one in
yes it should stay running. When unplugging the ECT, the ecu compensates by adding more fuel, so the fact that your car stalls when it’s unplugged leads me to believe you’re getting waaaaay more fuel than you should, basically drowning the cylinders with fuel which is why you must open the throttle to let air in to keep it running..... why would you be getting waaaaay more fuel than you should? Well how about starting with that big ol’ aftermarket pump🤔....

....But Indeed, the best way to go about it is through proper diagnosis, not guess-work.
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Old Nov 5, 2018 | 03:01 AM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

Originally Posted by RobertoHdz
I think I'm going to just remove the pump just to take that out of the equation. Is there a way to monitor all that on a 92? Or would I have to take it to a shop?

You could go to a shop, but paying someone to work on these old *** cars is not worth the money... And to answer your question, yes you can monitor real time data, but you’ll need a bunch of gauges and ecu tuning capabilities.... If you’re not into this already, then you’ll need to get caught up to speed.

maybe you could save up and just buy another civic that doesn’t have major issues?
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Old Nov 5, 2018 | 04:18 AM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

Originally Posted by JRCivic1
Good theory but you forgot the "fluid dynamics" portion of the calculations. When you increase the volume of liquid pumped through the same size hose, the pressure increases as well. The stock fuel pump creates fuel pressures around 34psi at idle under vacuum, whereas a Walbro 255 pump creates 46psi under the same conditions. The 340 will be even higher... essentially over powering the stock fuel pressure regulator.

The O2 heater circuit not working is a problem... the O2 sensor cannot function properly if it not warmed to at least 600' F. An exhaust leak can give false readings to the ECU and increase the fuel delivery to the engine which adversely affects the fuel economy. Low ECT readings would make the ECU think that the car is essentially operating like at cold start... also creating poor fuel economy. Odd IAT readings can create the same issues. You need the ability to monitor real time data while the engine is running to effectively diagnose these possibilities.
I forgot the stock fuel pressure was not 43, but the stock regulator should still keep the pressure close to stock I would think. The only way to know for sure would be a gauge
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Old Nov 5, 2018 | 05:11 AM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

You would need to measure the fuel pressure with a gauge. Too much fuel can cause one of the "O2 sensor" codes due to inability to reach fuel trim.

Assuming the car were completely stock (which it is not), the most common reason for low mpg is improper timing.
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Old Nov 12, 2018 | 05:43 AM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

Originally Posted by RobertoHdz
I think I'm going to just remove the pump just to take that out of the equation. Is there a way to monitor all that on a 92? Or would I have to take it to a shop?
​​​​​​https://www.hondash.net/p/interface.html

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Old Nov 12, 2018 | 06:58 AM
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Default Re: 92 si 12mpg!!!

Originally Posted by deschlong
omg, I never heard of this. Thank you for sharing!
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