Hi all,

The other day I went for a drive in the mountains. I noticed the car felt somewhat vague turning right. I got it in my head that perhaps I should play with the rack guide adjuster to "tighten" up the steering. This only made the effect worse, so I took the car in for an alignment. They said my caster was messed up and shifted the subframe. No change to the way the car drives. I found the steering too tight to my liking so backed the adjuster off until it felt "normal".

Basically the problem I'm having are: 1) steering wheel is off-center (car goes left if steering wheel centered). 2) With no hands on the wheel the car pulls to the right in every gear at every speed. This is very evident when turning right at a slow speed from a light, almost feels like the car wants to hit the curb. 3) Turning right is basically vague and imprecise and the steering wheel doesn't want to self-center all the way after a right turn. Does anyone have any idea what the problem could be, or give me some ideas of what to check?

The car is a 93' Civic DX manual hatchback with ~210,000 miles. Steering rack was rebuilt not long ago, and all ball-joints and bushings are new. The car has Koni/GC coilovers, 21mm front swaybar, 22mm rear swaybar (with ASR brace) and 15"x7" Enkei RPF1 wheels. I've attached the last alignment I got.

Thanks!

 

bent steering components

 

Doesn't want to self center?

You adjusted your rack too tight.

 

Yea that's what the alignment place said. I brought it back home and backed the steering rack adjustment off a ton. Turning left the steering self-centers correctly, it's only turning right. Is that still possible that it would self-center one direction but not the other. Where I have it, it does self-center to the right, just poorly. I guess I could keep backing it off until the right side self-centers correctly, but thinking I'm going to introduce some play in the steering which I did not have prior.

Also, when turning left, the self-centering takes it right of center, same thing turning right.

 

the only other possibility is that your rack is bent.

you "recently rebuilt" it?

or bought it "rebuilt"?

you dont think this has anything to do with it??
https://honda-tech.com/forums/suspen...-look-3305033/

double check your wheel base with a tape measure.

 

Thanks for the response. I rebuilt the rack myself a few months ago: took everything apart (except the pinion gear that I couldn't get out) and replaced the rack end bushing, and inner, outer tie-rods, boots, etc.

I'm not sure about slipping off the curb doing anything. I didn't notice any pull after it, but did notice a vagueness about the steering. I replaced the right tie-rod (that was the side that slipped off the curb), and I thought everything was alright, but a week ago the pull to the right and vagueness started. I've also wondered if I hurt a ball-joint and then it wore from use to where it is now.

I tried backing off the rack-guide adjustment (again) this evening and no luck. Right turns to center easier, but it still seems slower than left turn centering, and it only goes until about 1-2 o-clock on the steering wheel. Steering is still off-center and pulls to the right / right turns feel vague and imprecise.

By check wheel base, you mean compare the distance on both sides?

 

There is a different number of turns lock-to-lock left and right (although it's been like that for awhile), could that be the source of the problem? I guess I may just take everything apart and see if anything is obviously wrong.

 

the alignment shop should have caught that you put your steering wheel off center.

i can see that being a problem.

 

The only thing I can think now is to check ball-joints and then try to center steering myself and take to different alignment shop.

 

you should go back to the same shop. they should redo it for you. they should have done a test drive anyway.

 

I jacked the car up last night and moved both wheels through their full range of steering motion by hand. What I did notice was that I could feel some harshness through the wheels and also could hear a "gear-on-gear" sound that sounded like it was coming from the steering rack, is that normal?

 

No of course not.

 

Got the car in the air yesterday and removed both tie-rods from the knuckle. Rotating both knuckles I don't really feel anything unusual, and don't feel any play from the tie-rods. Moving the steering rack back and forth by hand (from the tie-rod) produces a vibration and the same "gear-on-gear" sound. The vibration or sound is not evident when just moving the steering wheel. I'm thinking I'm going to pull the steering rack to see if I can figure out what it's issue is. Just not sure I want to go to the effort if I'm chasing a red herring...

 

I took the steering rack apart on Friday, unfortunately I can't find anything wrong with it, so I'll be putting it back together. Whatever is causing this problem is still eluding me. The only wear I could really find on the steering rack was on the back of the rack gear where it contacts the rack-end bushing and the rack guide, but I think it's okay, although I don't know what I'm looking for totally. There's clearly some wear on all the surfaces, but I'm not sure it's abnormal, it doesn't look like it to me. Once I get an alignment I'll post back if the issue persists.

 

Find two straight edges and roll it across to see if it's bent.

What are you trying to show around those burnished areas?

 

Good idea with the straight edge, I'll give that a try tomorrow. I'm assuming if it was bent - it wouldn't be dramatically so? I was just trying to show how the burnished areas have worn, I have no idea what's considered normal or acceptable in this regard. On the passenger side of the rack, you can feel the burnished areas with your thumb - it has worn enough. I was hoping this would be destroyed on the inside, but if it is damaged, it's not obvious to me.

 

The rack seemed straight to me. I put everything back together today - but the alignment is so off the car feels horrible, so I'll post back once I get it aligned.

 

Did you check the obvious stuff like tire pressure and wear depth comparison from left to right?

 

Good news. Got an alignment yesterday and the car feels much better.

Here's the interesting part, when I got the car back the alignment tech said that it still pulled a little to the right, it wasn't bad though. Since it got very cold today I decided to switch to my all seasons. The pull to the right is gone now. The car still seems to "favor" going to the right a bit, but it tracks pretty straight with my hands off the wheel. I'm very happy with it now though, the steering has a nice weighting to it and centers nicely. Thanks for the help everyone!

Now I'm wondering if something is wrong with my summer tires? I'll rotate them once I put them back on, but it may be some time. My theory is that the previous alignment was not good and created a wear pattern causing the pull. Getting a better alignment reduced this. Not sure though.

 

tire wear affects how it pulls. for sure.

 

Weirdly the car feels more nimble on 175/70-13 all-seasons on the stock steelies vs the 195/50-15 Dunlop Direzzas on Enkei RPF-1s. Steering is heavier too. I'm happy with how it's handling now though.

 

radial runout causes a pull issue. Road crown is usually always right, and can make it pull slightly right, so consider that. If you think you have a radial pull issue, rotate the front tires to the rear. Since the rear always follows the front, it will drive straight, however your steering wheel will be off center, because the pull will now be on the rear.

 

Yea I put my all-seasons on and there is absolutely no pull to the right anymore. Unfortunately my steering wheel is off about 1-2 degrees from center. I have to hold the wheel 1-2 degrees to the left to get the car to go straight. I can let go of the wheel and the car tracks perfectly.

I'm going to rotate my all-seasons to see if there's any change, since I don't remember the steering being off-center when the car was aligned on my Summer tires. If that doesn't work I might take it back to see if they can get it centered, while it's not a lot, I'm kinda picky about steering.

 

After alignments, if Im lazy and dont want to put it on the rack again, and know it will still be in spec, i just mark the inner & outer tie rods, and turn one a half turn. 1 to 2 degrees might be quarter. Thats not much. If the wheel is right, you turn one rod threaded in the direction of the tire going right, and verse visa. Doesnt matter which one either. They should do it free if its off. Someone might have done what I do to correct steering wheel because of a shitty tire too.

 

I had considered moving the tie-rods myself since it's so minor, but I'm worried I'll do a poor job. I'm probably going to see if they'll fix it next week. It's mostly annoying since it requires more movement of the steering wheel to turn left versus right. Most people probably wouldn't even notice it, but I'm very particular about this.