Honda Accord (1990 - 2002) Includes 1997 - 1999 Acura CL

96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

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Old Oct 21, 2015 | 04:25 PM
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Icon4 96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

1996 Accord
2.2L F22B2 (non-vtec)
5 spd manual
all stock

A little bit of back info

Did a head gasket after the radiator went and the SO overheated it driving 30 miles home
got it up and running, but rough

Replaced:
Secondary O2 sensor- was bad, and throwing a code
ECT sensor on the tstat housing- fans arnt kicking on but thats another day kind of problem because i havent had it up hot enough to kick it on yet to fully test
ignition wiring harness- PO had added a hack job alarm, and the wiring drove me insane looking at it.
Thermostat

All new gaskets went in with a Felpro kit after having the head skimmed and crack checked.

I've tested for spark, and can hear the injectors clicking, i cleaned them while the head was off by making a hose adapter with hose clamps and used carb cleaner while i applied voltage to clear them

Valve adjustment is on point (i can use shims, I'm a machinist by trade)

I do have an Innova 3040C scanner, so heres my freeze frame
Fuel sys1- CL
Fuel sys2- NA
Calc load- 37.0
ECT (F)- 188.6
STFT B1 (%)- 12.5
LTLF B1(%)- 0.0
MAP(inFg)- 11.2
Eng. RPM- 694
IAT (F)- 105.8
TPS- 9.4

This reading was taken at operating temp, as the code wasen't thrown until then.

Also did a compression test, WOT just after this code to be sure
***im pretty sure my compression is low across the board, think they're supposed to be around 150-170

Dry/Wet
CL1- 120/130
CL2- 118/130
CL3- 120/132
CL4- 120/135

Sorry about this wall of text, wanted to give as much info as possible.
any and all help is appreciated.
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Old Oct 21, 2015 | 05:25 PM
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Default Re: 96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

If the STFT is adding fuel beyond 5% steadily and the car is still misfiring it may be a fueling issue. Have you checked the fuel pressure?

If the coolant used contained silicates it may have coated the primary O2 sensor which may become sluggish/slow and indicate 'lean'(even when it is not) and increase fuel from the injectors.

Pull the plugs to see if they are fuel fouled. O2 maybe failing. If they look hot/glazed/white the FPR may be failing, or fuel filter may be clogging.

Check the fuel pressure, see if there is any change when the vacuum to the FPR is disconnected.
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Old Oct 21, 2015 | 09:34 PM
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Default Re: 96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

Your numbers seem unsually low even for a b2 engine. I would try another compression tester just to be sure.

If you were leaking coolant into the combustion chamber I would swap out the upstream oxygen sensor with a new Denso.
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Old Oct 22, 2015 | 02:11 AM
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Default Re: 96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

Wonder if timing belt of off by a tooth or two? Valves adjusted?
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Old Oct 22, 2015 | 04:37 AM
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Default Re: 96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

@tim73- i did adjust my valves and double check clearances, but ill triple check the timing tonight. out of curiosity though, if timing was off, wouldn't it misfire across the board?

@holmesnmanny- the head gasket did go, so this may be a key factor. ill look into getting a denzo asap for replacement

@Madmike- I hadn't checked the fuel pressure beyond cracking the line open to make sure it was pumping, I've had the plugs out multiple times over the last few days and they look great (always NGK), I'll pull the fuel filter tonight and check the FPR as well.

as always, thank you all for your time, and ill update tomorrow
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Old Oct 23, 2015 | 05:53 AM
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Default Re: 96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

UPDATE-
timing is off by 1 tooth or so, so ill be adjusting that tonight
ran a fuel pressure test, after starting the car it was right at 35 psi, without the vacuum line it ran at 45, and dropped back to 35 when reconnected. ill be replacing the fuel filter either way, as the car has not had one changed, and it looked pretty bad in there.
I also ran a test on the primary 02 sensor, and although the heater circut was at 14.5 ohms, when i added heat, as i saw in a few videos, nothing changed, and i did try it on amps, with my probes in the white and blue wires(also tried it reversed just in case i was wrong) and showed nothing. so the Denso is on order.

anything else that i should check while I'm in there?

BTW- whoever engineered the 96 engine compartment, with the fuel filter down there should have been fired....
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Old Oct 23, 2015 | 07:12 AM
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Default Re: 96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

Does your amp clamp read ac and dc? Not all do...
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Old Oct 23, 2015 | 09:11 AM
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Default Re: 96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

Originally Posted by tim73
Does your amp clamp read ac and dc? Not all do...
it does, do i need switch it?
i didn't change over from when i tested the heater circuit, just from ohms to volts.
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Old Oct 24, 2015 | 02:54 AM
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Default Re: 96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

Just so long you have it on DC amps, some amp clamps only read ac amps.
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Old Oct 25, 2015 | 03:36 PM
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Default Re: 96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

UPDATE

Retested my sensor as bad, found a Denso in the scrap yard that luckily tested good.
replaced it, and the fuel filter, which was a PITA! for sure.

re checked timing and confirmed with a timing light for ignition timing, as well as checking valve clearance.

still had a P303 pop up

because i have a reader with freeze frame here are the numbers, the first one is when it came up to op temp, the second is after i cleared it and restarted the engine.

Fule Sys 1- CL
Calc Load- 32.9
ECT (F)- 181.4
STFT B1 (%)- 22.7
LTFT B! (%)- 0
MAP- 9.7
RPM- 683
SPD- 0
IAT (F)- 102.2
TPS(%)- 9.4

After restarting the engine

Fule Sys 1- CL
Calc Load- 32.7
ECT (F)- 181.4
STFT B1 (%)- 18.8
LTFT B! (%)- 0
MAP- 10.0
RPM- 679
SPD- 0
IAT (F)- 116.6
TPS(%)- 9.4

as usual, any help is appreciated, and i hope y'all can help me get this back on the road.
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Old Oct 25, 2015 | 03:49 PM
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Default Re: 96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

looking at the first numbers i posted, and u/MAD_MIKE comment about adding over 5% STFT, i only cleared the codes with the reader, would resetting the ECM(via pulling fuses) help with this?

in theory, my fuel should have better flow after the filter change, and i primed 6 times for leak check purposed, and to make sure good pressure was there before trying to start it.
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Old Oct 25, 2015 | 04:16 PM
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Default Re: 96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

Why are you steadfastly refusing to put in a new oxygen sensor ?
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Old Oct 26, 2015 | 03:03 AM
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Default Re: 96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

Originally Posted by holmesnmanny
Why are you steadfastly refusing to put in a new oxygen sensor ?
im not refusing to put in a new sensor, the one i found tested good, vs ordering one and waiting or spending 85$ at the local parts store, a good part is a good part, as long as it's tested alone.
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Old Oct 28, 2015 | 03:45 PM
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Default Re: 96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

O2 sensors become lazy over time. Even if they check out 'good' you want to monitor the operating voltage. If it is barely moving you have a dead sensor.
New Denso from RockAuto is 40 bones.
NTK is 25.
But those are the only two aftermarket sensors I would use.
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Old Oct 29, 2015 | 04:20 AM
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Default Re: 96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

I wound up ordering the Denzo from Rockauto on Wed.
I'll be taking this car to the shop Friday and let them deal with it.
after running the car again and again, im almost certain i have a vacuum leak because my STFT is still running about 12%.

Correct me if im wrong in my thinking here, but with it that high, the PCM would be sending more fuel, because of the unmonitored air coming into the system.
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Old Oct 29, 2015 | 06:07 AM
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Default Re: 96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

Could there be air bubbles in the cooling system? I've heard this can cause idling issues, although I'm not sure about a misfire - seems unlikely.
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Old Oct 29, 2015 | 11:42 AM
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Default Re: 96 Accord Misfire is driving me to insanity...REAL FAST

Originally Posted by scubacamper
Could there be air bubbles in the cooling system? I've heard this can cause idling issues, although I'm not sure about a misfire - seems unlikely.
I've heard the same thing, the cooling system is thoroughly bled though, and surprisingly the mis isn't that noticeable in sound, but you can feel it when holding the steering wheel.

I do have a mobile honda tech coming over Friday to help me see if we cant figure it out, i'll be sure to let you guys know what it was.... if we can get it worked out.
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