Set up
B16 stock bottem end
Head (bought like this)
head milled .025"
Omni dual valve springs
Omni titanium retainers
Omni Flathead inconel valves
GT32 turbo
spoolin performance log mani
Tial F38 wastegate (only odd thing, but i dont see an issue with it here, is i have a F38 MVS adapator. Its run in reverse since my manifold has the MVS flange, its machined on the backside to seat the fire ring)


She was on the dyno yesterday and the turbo would spool but wouldn't boost up and she blew quite a bit of blue smoke (could be restrictor but that looks right) and a had a miss. The guys at the shop think there is something in the head that is causing the issue (maybe bent valves) and here is what was checked

Dist timing
Cam timing
compression test (between 175 -185 on all cylinders)
Hondata program looks good
Plugs new
wires look fine
fire ring installed

It sounds like (but not sure) all the air was rushing out of the exhaust. we pulled the hoses off the wastegate and still no boost, they said it should at least pull 1-2lbs if the wastegate was leaking at full throttle. I figured if the valves were leaking it would show on the compression test or it would still boost a little. Any thoughts?

let me know if you need pics

 

Compression test rules out bent valves for sure. What was vacuum at an idle? I bet you have a massive boost leak.....split coupler etc...

Pressure up the cold side of your turbo kit and look for leaks. Between that and a leak-down test you should have your answer.

 

I've also answered individually, but this is correct. Sounds like a major boost leak somewhere, but also check valve guides (which can still give good compression readings, even if there's a problem) and valve stem seals.

 

there wasn't a boost leak anywhere. We even used a soap spray to check. I have a very very short run from the turbo to the throttle so its easy to check.

i thought you could still have even compression and still have leaks since it only records a max reading and not a loss.

i think i am going to try to hook air up to my compression tester fitting, put air into the spark plug hole and listen for leaks.

here is a pic so you get an idea...

 

I hope you get things figured out cause that thing looks like fun!!!

 

Intake setup? Ive seen restrictive intakes cause a lack of boost, and would also account for the blue smoke as it draws oil in past the seals.

Only real potential causes... mechanical timing, boost leak, restricted exhaust/intake. You'd be able to tell if it was the wastegate not sealing

 

hows the shaft play on the turbo? if the turbo needs badly rebuilt it can spin but not build any boost pressure

 

Turbo is fine. BNIB with the correct restrictor and fittings

 

175-185 sounds low on compression for a stock b16. should be around 220ish. my 9:0.1 je block is at 195, last time i checked. did you do the compression test open throttle

 

ok so i did some testing over the weekend

Compression test
between 170 and 180 all cylinders. didnt do a wet test

Wastegate
Its not opening. I pulled the dump tube and looked. Sealed shut and no black soot in the dump tube form running rich

Leak Down Test
I might need to do this one again since i didn't warm up the engine. Pretty much I got 100% leakdown in all cylinders which i couldn't hear until i cranked the air up. Only noise coming out on each cylinder was through the crankcase (intake and exhaust were silent so the vlaves are fine) however i didn't realize that the engine needs to be warm so that the rings seat properly.

Vacuum test
this one was odd. I cannot find any leak anywhere (didn't check the IACV). Not sure what is going on here. The gauge says Lateing Timing (distributor) but that was checked and double checked. Not sure what to do about this issue. Needle didn't bounce but it did move. see below


any thoughts on where to go from here?

 

Fire ring is secure on the wastegate? Please show how you've got your vacuum lines hooked up to it, and your pressure sources.

Sounds like exhaust leak, not necessarily vacuum leak. You're leak down tester may not be seeing that

 

Fire ring installed, would have detected a leak when i pulled the dump tube off and ran the car.

No exhaust leaks that i can find from the valves, the manifold to the block/turbo or wastegate.

Vacuum wiring:
FPR and bov teed into the small port on the intake manifold
Map source from the Throttle body
Brake boosted plugged
Manual boost controller is disconnected for now until boost thing gets resolved. Was running to charcol canister poort on throttle body but that is now plugged

 

15 inHg is very low vacuum for an engine without big cams, and does in fact indicate mechanical timing is off. A stock honda should be in the 20-22 range

Also, leakdown tests need to be done with each cylinder at TDC on the compression stroke. Either it wasn't done like that, or the tester wasn't zero'd

 

Yeah the cams came from Mac (The Shodan, so i hope they are b16 cams )

mechanical timing has been checked quite a few times. they line up each time.

Leakdown was done at TDC for each cylinder using the pic below as a guide and the leakdown tester was reset each time.

i plan to go home, do the leakdown again but like i said if anything its the rings since with lots of pressure, i didn't hear a peep out of the intake or exhaust. I will also do the wet version this time.

I will also do some more exhaust leak testing by pressuring the exhaust and then using seafoam... maybe it is a very small leak that is shown up once we try too boost

 

Oh yeah, those cams came from my wife's original EM1, so I know they're good.

 

Have you verified timing with a timing light?

 

I think i found my boost issue. Big leak from my tial mvs to f38 adaptor. Now i need to figure out how to fix it. I can get a stainless washer that is the right size but i will need to turn the od down somehow. I dont know if this will fix the vacuum issue though.

This is what it looks like.

 

I just cut up an aluminum gasket to seal up the two halves as a test piece since it probably wont hold up to the temps. We will see how that goes. Also, the v band doesn't look like it seals very well. I will have to purchase the official $40 one.

 

yo should also check that mech timing vac numbers are pretty low

 

mechanical timing looks good but i will post some pics just to be sure

any one know what vacuum should be at higher altitude?

 

Mech timing looks right no?? I also posted pics of the vacuum set up. Apart from that and the map sensor, all other vacuum ports are plugged. I did do a boost leak check on the intake side to find leaks and there are not any. All vacuum ports were blowing air so nothing is plugged.

The new clamp and steel gasket sealed the wastegate so no more leaks. I am not sure how well it will hold up under temperature though.

Nothing else that i can find that cause a low vacuum leak. Even at altitude it should be a shade bit higher (approx 1" loss above 2000ft for every 1kft). Maybe the distributor is faulty?

I will try to get a video later today of the vacuum gauge hooked up on the engine.

I also need to double check the idle to make sure that its not reving too high. Are the numbers in Hondata accurate??

 

Honestly, that looks like it may be one tooth off. Going by the inner marks only isn't the most accurate because they can be turned in 1/2 tooth each and it will still appear to be correct. Also, the plastic timing cover isn't the best reference for something this exact (though I do realize that means taking the crank pulley off, a bit of a hassle)

The BEST way is to run a straight edge across the head (valve cover off) and match it up with the lines on the edge of the cam. That leaves zero room for error. Maybe the pictures are deceiving, it's hard to tell for sure without seeing it in person. Curious to see what the others say

 

I cleaned the IACV and the FITV and it feels smoother at idle but still rough. I drove it around yesterday and it feels more powerful but i am still not sure if it is boosting.

Here are some videos at idle and the datalogs. Since i drove the car to work, i will try to get some moving data logs at lunch.

 

This is a niffty tool for this and it 25 bucks

 

yeah i set mine using the holes it the cam caps