Hi guys.

finally after many days of multiple carnage events I got my car up and running.

THe setup is basic as I have posted earlyer:

H22 rod + evo piston
DDtech regring camshaft
Bisimoto springs + whatever valves I found locally after a belt failure
B16 trans + gsr 4th and 5th + LSD
custom IM
log manifold
silver surfer turbo
36mm gate
ID1000 on E98
garrett core IC
2.5" piping
3" downpipe and that's it

just a pic:







now... this is on different boost levels, Im freaking out as I have disassembled my WG several times as the boost climbs reaaaaaally slow... to a point where it makes 10psi only at 5500 rpm and then it creeps fast to the rev limiter (that it set at about 7250 at this point)

the red graph is a 9psi pull, the blue one is eleven (it has a little dip up top because I'm on a stock map sensor) and the green one is a 14psi pull....


it's not bad as it made 341whp at 14pounds but it ran VERY lean on that dip so I'm waiting on a 4 bar map to push a little further, given the fact it wasnt actually tuned on that pull I'm prety sure it can make around 360 to 370 at 15 pounds of boost BUT, I still cant figure why it takes too long to climb.

about the dyno it reads pretty much exactly like a dynojet, we have dynoed a 2013 jetta gli at 187whp so I think its spot on.


whatcha guys think?

 

My bet is on the turbo

 

well, i'm gonna search a little more and if I find nothing then I will swap it out for an HX40 and call it a day

 

Not sure what the guy meant when he said his bet is on the turbo. In any case, check for leaks or slack connections, both hot side and cold side. Shodan does good turbos, so if anything i would look there last. Have you done a visual inspection?

 

Check for a restriction in the exhaust (collapsed flex pipe), along with exhaust and boost leaks. That turbo should be good for 500+. The F22A even with a stock cam will make 300hp on almost any capable turbo at 15psi.

If it turns out to be the intake manifold (which I doubt), the other option would be a K20 PRB manifold. I just sold injectors to a guy that's making >400whp on an stock F22 that has nothing added besides a big turbo and the K20 PRB IM. Everything lines up, you just have to redrill some holes and tap the coolant hole under intake runner #4.


BTW I'm curious what specific EVO pistons you're using. I recall posting some Wiseco EVO stroker part numbers that should work in the f22+h22 rod/dsm piston thread, and it will be my next engine build.

 

your problem is how you're controlling boost.

with a line ran from the charge piping to the wastegate as boost pressure increases the gate starts to open before target pressure is made, this causes the turbo to take longer to make full boost since the gate starts to bypass exhaust before it needs to.

 

The k series rbc manifold is the one that fits the best (at least in the accord chassis) it has the best compromise between plenum volume and runner length. most of the other k series manifolds have runners that are too long so it won't physically fit the motor.

 

Because between the long stroke, displacement, and head flow of a non vtec f22a1 they love to spool up big turbos fairly fast, that's what they are notorious for.

so your silver surfer should spool way faster but with your wastegate opening prematurely it will spool much slower.

either put a manual boost controller on it to reduce the lag slightly or use an electronic boost controller to eliminate it entirely. either use your ecu based boost control with a Mac solenoid or use a standalone unit.

if you don't you'll continue to have the same issue.

 

I think it's an EK, otherwise yes the PRB's plenum hangs way too low. It's just fine on a Civic, either f2b or full F. I mentioned the PRB mostly because F heads don't flow to 8-9k like K20's, and the RBC is rather expensive for the small gains I've seen many others [barely] make.

 

That is true, on the accords we can only use the rbc. the main benefit is that the OEM a1 intake manifold has too much **** attached to it.

iacv
fast idle thermo valve
starting air bypass valve or whateever it's called
poor IAT sensor placement - it's in the middle of the number 1 runner in the hottest part of the engine bay which equals heatsoak city
and some other useless ****.

so deleting that **** not only cleans up the engine bay but it eliminates antiquated equipment that's prone to failure.

if you know where to look you can pick up an rbc manifold for about 175 dollars.

I currently have a 90 accord with an auto f22a1 that's just started burning oil at 250k. It's my dd so I can't pull the motor out and rebuild it. so I'm debating about finding another a1 shortblock and either putting forged rods and pistons in it or the h22 rod/EVO piston combo.

the problem is around here f22s are expensive, like 500 for a good condition shortblock.. then there's the cost of finding a manual transmission that isn't destroyed. I only want to make roughly 300whp and a good amount of torque, just enough to have a fun dd. I have most of the parts I need just laying around from other builds.

my spare parts I'd use on the accord are

PWR intercooler
Mitsubishi TD06H-25C turbo (Banks Sidewinder turbo, hybrid single blade compressor wheel with a 20g inducer and 25g exducer
TiAL 38mm wastegate
one of my many blow off valves
sard 550cc injectors
aem fpr
30-1000 aem ems
aem gauge type wideband
etc

I'm not sure how much a decent transmission will cost me along with new axles, shifter cables, and the shifter assembly, on top of sourcing a good shortblock but I'm thinking it would be cheaper to buy a jdm vtec f20b

I can get a complete low miles f20b along with an LSD t2t4 trans, axles, intermediate shaft, alternator, ac compressor, wiring harness, ecu, all sensors, shifter cables, intake and exhaust for 1900 delivered. no dealing with finding parts or rebuilding a questionable motor.

all I would do is put an rbc intake manifold on it, 70mm tb, generic cast turbo manifold, competition stage 5 clutch and 9lb flywheel, ARP headstuds, new headgasket, billet manual tensioner, gates racing timing belt, new oil pump modified by endyn with kaizenspeed balance shaft delete, send it racing icm delete, msd cap and external coil, some ignition box, ipg block fittings for a catchcan, Sheepey catchcan, 3bar map sensor, aluminum scirocco radiator, new water pump, innovative mounts, 3" downpipe and exhaust, 2.5" charge piping (all I have to do is pay my fabricator for materials and buy him beer lol) and the other basics.

toss on the spare parts I listed above and for under 3k I've got a fun 300ish hp daily driver and I don't have to deal with any
bullshit like shady people, shady parts, and dealing with potentially having to buy multiple parts due to damage and other issues (mostly dishonest people)

plus the manual trans version of the f20b has stiffer valvesprings and h22 type s cams so the valvetrain is perfect for a 300hp turbo motor, it has enough cam in stock form not to suffer from any power taper

I mean don't get me wrong the f22a1 is a fun motor, I just don't see the point in going through hell to put a stock block f22 back in the car.

OP how do you like your f22 so far? I know you've gone through some **** with oil filter failure and valvetrain failure. it's still interesting that you chose this motor for an Ek chassis over the more common and abundantly aftermarket supported motors. I do love the being different thing though. also what are you paying for f22 parts like long blocks and transmissions and such? I'm pretty sure people around here are just jacking up the prices because they can. **** one local guy is trying to sell high mileage automatic transmission a1s for 1500 dollars... me thinks he's crazy.

 

Well... I understand that the way I'm controlling boost might be the issue, but with a harder spring it should build boost faster if that is the case....

The IM is simple but I believe its effective and the car LOVES revolutions, I think it should be beuilding power past 8000 rpm once I figure out what is going on. I'm gonna re-check my BOV, hook up an MBC and search for leaks...


I have no exhaust transmission as my exhaust is about 3 feet long, no flexpipe, 3 inch...

 

regardless of spring psi as the pressure increases the wastegate will open before spring pressure... It doesn't just magically open once target boost is reached.

for example, the springs your car rides on don't move only when enough weight overcomes the spring rate, your car would ride like total ****... they move gradually with weight increases, it just happens to take x amount of weight to compress the spring an inch. hence a spring rate of lbs per inch

the spring in the wastegate is the same way, opening gradually with boost pressure until target boost is made. changing springs only changes how little or how much the valve has to travel to maintain a certain psi. normally higher boost springs means less valve travel.

a company makes a replacement wastegate top with a 0-5v linear potentiometer to allow you to datalog and monitor wastegate valve travel. it's useful for people who are having boost control issues as you can physically see how far the valve is opening. The have shelf units for the TiAL mvs and mvr, hks, and Turbosmart gates. custom units can be made for other valves.

if you had one you'd notice the valve start slowly opening at a certain psi and continuing to open until your desired boost level is reached.

an mbc will reduce this effect a small bit but as an mbc also allows pressure to reach the wastegate before the desired pressure is reached the valve will still creep open.

the only way to eliminate it is with an ebc that prevents any pressure from reaching the valve until a few tenths of a psi before your target boost is reached.. the solenoid rapidly opens to the fully open position rapidly to get the valve open as far as it can go, this is to avoid overboost conditions. once target pressure is made the solenoid opens and closes to maintain proper valve opening for a given boost pressure and rpm as exhaust flow changes and at different loads and rpm points different amounts of exhaust need to bypass the turbine wheel.

 

I know people in SC in FL, people there don't give a **** about Accord stuff. If you dislike travel, maybe shipping something in would be a better deal. You can get a decent Accord motor & trans shipped to you for half that $1500 tranny. I so think the turbo is a bit large for 550cc injectors, but rock it if you got it.

OP, here's a dyno pic showing a miata building boost with just the wastegate and with an electronic boost controller. The WG boost does creep, when the WG opens at 3400 the ebc has already built 3psi more. Try switching the WG boost reference to after the throttle body to start. If it's still slow, check for leaks or a huge exhaust restriction. I've seen a sohc make 170whp with 10psi, then only 190whp with 19psi because the turbo manifold had a huge restriction in it - it necked down to two 1" tubes!

 

I don't mind travel at all. I've flown to New York, Connecticut, and Vermont to buy cars and drove them back to Georgia lol.

I bet if I poked Joseph Davis with a stick he could find me an f22 shortblock and 5spd trans.

the turbo was free, it's in mint condition, and it's actually a TE06H turbine wheel, same size as a TD06 but more efficient design. it has a 10cm turbine housing and the compressor wheel is fairly light for its size and has excellent aerodynamics. theoretically it should be good for about 425ish horsepower and any f series motor should have no issue spoiling it just right for gobs of midrange torque.

plus the f20b is kind of the forgotten Honda black sheep, I like different lol

 

That's absolutely great results thus far.