motor *clicks* then dies immediately
Hey everyone I would really appreciate some help troubleshooting this problem I'm having...so I'll start from the beginning:
I have an 89 wagon, converted to mpfi and obd1. Was running an a6 bottom end with y8 head for a while, but my motor was having some issues and overheated, so I decided to swap out the head for a z6 head. Had the z6 head resurfaced, pressure checked, and checked for cracks before installing. New gaskets, z6 dizzy, new timing belt, already had ARP head studs, adjusted valve lashings...etc...basically made sure I did everything right with the 'new' head.
Had a few issues getting full compression with the motor, but I was able to add a little oil to the cylinders and get it started. Once the oil burned off it still ran fine, and even still started up with no issues after sitting for a full 24 hours. Someone told me that the piston rings may have been "gas-washed" due to flooding the engine, and that adding the tiny bit of oil and getting it running basically "re-set" the rings.
Anyway, so I finished up the head swap, motor was able to start and idle with no issues, no obvious burning oil or loss of compression. Timing seemed to be at least pretty close to normal, and I had double- and triple-checked it, also no CELs, so I decided to take it on a test drive.
During the test drive, the car hesitated to accelerate through about the 2-3.5k rpm range, and died every time I depressed the clutch to come to a stop, but otherwise felt completely normal. I thought maybe the timing could be a bit off still. I noticed a very slight clicking sound coming from the motor during the test drive, mainly when I was accelerating only slightly. Pulled back into my driveway to diagnose the problem, thought maybe my timing belt was still a bit loose and just slapping the cover. While the car was sitting there at idle, I heard a loud *click* sound from the motor, and it immediately died (fairly non-violently). Was not able to start it up again. Still turns over fine and gives no CELs.
Anyone have any clue what could have caused this?? I figure if I had broken a valve or blown piston rings, or something else mechanical, the motor would have started to stutter instead of immediately dying, but I'm not sure. Even if the timing belt had slipped a tooth (which I don't think could have happened), seems the car shouldn't have died like it did.
I'm quite stumped...any help would be much appreciated.
I have an 89 wagon, converted to mpfi and obd1. Was running an a6 bottom end with y8 head for a while, but my motor was having some issues and overheated, so I decided to swap out the head for a z6 head. Had the z6 head resurfaced, pressure checked, and checked for cracks before installing. New gaskets, z6 dizzy, new timing belt, already had ARP head studs, adjusted valve lashings...etc...basically made sure I did everything right with the 'new' head.
Had a few issues getting full compression with the motor, but I was able to add a little oil to the cylinders and get it started. Once the oil burned off it still ran fine, and even still started up with no issues after sitting for a full 24 hours. Someone told me that the piston rings may have been "gas-washed" due to flooding the engine, and that adding the tiny bit of oil and getting it running basically "re-set" the rings.
Anyway, so I finished up the head swap, motor was able to start and idle with no issues, no obvious burning oil or loss of compression. Timing seemed to be at least pretty close to normal, and I had double- and triple-checked it, also no CELs, so I decided to take it on a test drive.
During the test drive, the car hesitated to accelerate through about the 2-3.5k rpm range, and died every time I depressed the clutch to come to a stop, but otherwise felt completely normal. I thought maybe the timing could be a bit off still. I noticed a very slight clicking sound coming from the motor during the test drive, mainly when I was accelerating only slightly. Pulled back into my driveway to diagnose the problem, thought maybe my timing belt was still a bit loose and just slapping the cover. While the car was sitting there at idle, I heard a loud *click* sound from the motor, and it immediately died (fairly non-violently). Was not able to start it up again. Still turns over fine and gives no CELs.
Anyone have any clue what could have caused this?? I figure if I had broken a valve or blown piston rings, or something else mechanical, the motor would have started to stutter instead of immediately dying, but I'm not sure. Even if the timing belt had slipped a tooth (which I don't think could have happened), seems the car shouldn't have died like it did.
I'm quite stumped...any help would be much appreciated.
I can smell fuel in the cylinder when I remove a spark plug (after attempting to start the car), and the fuel pumps is priming. I do not appear to be getting any spark - ignition cables will not spark to ground when removed from head and cranking motor.
Checked compression in cyl 1, nothing. Added a bit of oil to cyl 1, still no compression. Checked mechanical timing, it seemed to be off by a fairly decent amount, maybe a few teeth. Adjusted and tested again, still no compression. Either my week-old compression gauge is already broken, or something else is wrong. Headgasket or something in the head itself would be my first guesses...even though I just replaced them. Going to check the gauge in another car to make sure.
Anything stand out to you guys?
EDIT: Compression gauge is not broken...
Cyl. 1 compression: 0 w/o oil in cylinder, 0 with
Cyl 2: ~25psi w/o oil, ~60 with
Cyl. 3: 0, 0
Cyl. 4: ~60-90 psi, 120psi
Radiator does not spew coolant when cranked. Oil is dirty but normal dirty colored. This makes me lean towards thinking it is bad piston rings rather than a blown head gasket (I used a new oem gasket and torqued everything in the proper order).
Hmm...well that's no good. Still confused as to why I wasn't getting any spark. Maybe I just had a bad grounding point...
Last edited by alanviosca; Aug 22, 2013 at 02:42 PM.
Well for sure it wont start without spark, so If I were you I would address that first. When using compression gauge, is your pedal pushed to floor ? Crank it atleast 5 or more revolutions ??? mine took about ten revolutions to reach 135+ PSI with the throttle closed, never did try with throttle open, because I refused to believe I had blown my motor (turns out I did'nt)
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Well for sure it wont start without spark, so If I were you I would address that first. When using compression gauge, if your pedal pushed to floor and crank it atleast 5- or more revolutions ??? mine took about ten revolutions to reach 135+ PSI with the throttle closed.
I'm not really sure how to go about the spark issue. I'm pretty good with the mechanical side of things but not so much the electrical...
EDIT: I'm now getting a TDC sensor error code.
Last edited by alanviosca; Aug 22, 2013 at 03:29 PM.
check the dizzy cap, i had the misfiring issue after i blew a hole into my rad hose and water got into my dizzy cap cleaned it out and then sanded down the points a bit and it ran like a champ afterwards.
compression(since you're not getting water/oil mixture into one another) i would rule out HG. then theres valve seals, might have messed up the seating of your valves on either intake or exhaust side(seen it happen) on first start up.
actually, i would pull off the rad cap and have someone either crank the engine and you watch inside the rad or vise versa becuse you could have put a hole into the water end of the head gasket on that cylinder(happened to me with my last car after i did the HG).
compression(since you're not getting water/oil mixture into one another) i would rule out HG. then theres valve seals, might have messed up the seating of your valves on either intake or exhaust side(seen it happen) on first start up.
actually, i would pull off the rad cap and have someone either crank the engine and you watch inside the rad or vise versa becuse you could have put a hole into the water end of the head gasket on that cylinder(happened to me with my last car after i did the HG).
Good News: I found some broken wires going to the dizzy. Fixed them and got rid of my TDC sensor CEL.
Bad News: I can't crank the motor over by hand. It cranks fine using the starter but it definitely seizes when hand cranking it. Wondering if I maybe bent a rod somehow?
Bad News: I can't crank the motor over by hand. It cranks fine using the starter but it definitely seizes when hand cranking it. Wondering if I maybe bent a rod somehow?
If your timing might be "a few teeth off" you could be jamming a piston into a valve.
Get the timing correct before you keep turning it over, if you still have no compression after getting the timing correct, it may be time to pull the head off and see what's up.
Get the timing correct before you keep turning it over, if you still have no compression after getting the timing correct, it may be time to pull the head off and see what's up.
I'm pretty sure I corrected the timing issue, but I will double check...
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