ok, so i am doing my first ever engine build. first off, i have worked on honda's quite a bit and i am a jet mechanic for the US Navy so i wont have a problem with the work. also i am located in socal so the work that does need to be sent off will be done in san diego or LA. i have a 92 civic hatch si with a 1997 GSR B18C1 (all stock). i am NOT going to boost it. and i will be using it for auto-x. i believe the head gasket is bad so right now im at the point of doing an entire head tear-down... my question to you guys is "what next?"... funds are not unlimited but i do have money to do this... what should i buy? what products do you like? if i do cams, cam gears, springs, retainers and valves should i send the head off for work? should i do this when i am replacing the head gasket? what about TB and IM? should i get new bigger ones? ALSO!! MY CAR IS REGISTERED IN MONTANA WHERE IM FROM SO THERE IS GOING TO BE NO SMOG OR LEGAL ISSUES (THANK GOD) JUST LET ME KNOW HOW YOU GUYS WOULD DO A BUILD LIKE THIS!!!! thanks for your input and for reading! i will put up pics of the parts i get and keep a list up for you guys on the progress.

 

Look at the dyno thread and see what people have had success with. Thanks.

 

IMO if your gonna tear down the head supertech had really good products i suggest upgrading ur valve train, get the head ported run some Blox B cams and 310cc injectors should make some really nice number specially if u upgrade the manifold and throttle body also...

 

thanks guys, this is a great start! im looking at the dino sheets and im seeing a little better numbers from the buddy club cams vs the blox cams... what do you think?

 

Like stated above, I would look into some valvetrain(supertech, skunk2), maybe a 2layer head gasket, some head work, performerX manifold(great on 1.8L), and some Pro1 cams. Since you'll be auto Xing, the larger primaries should help ya in the mid range alot better with the pro1s as opposed to the blox b's mentioned above. Hytech replica header, 2.5 exhaust, and a great tune and you should be pretty set! Oh yeah, maybe a larger throttle body for a little more responsive throttle(omni power has a 68 or 70mm for $99shipped!)

 

Lots of great info in that thread. Pull up a chair and start reading!

 

Dyno, shmyno..... Here's the $64,000 question. How do you want this powerband? Better midrange in the lower to mid-rpm band, like 4000-8000? Or something that deals with much more aggressive timing mid- top end power, like from 5700rpm-9500rpm? I ask this because that determines a bit more as to which parts are more appropriate to use. From the header (T*DA replica, Mugen or Skunk headers,) to something more aggressive (SMSP, PMP, tri-y's, Bisimotos, etc). That then leads to your intake manifold choice, your Cam choice, your exhaust choice based upon power and the sound you want etc... and the list goes on.

Forget this dyno number crap, because its ONE Gear, ONE Time, ONE peak number at optimal conditions. I hate to sound like a damned psychologist, but you have to talk about the feel that you want from this car. You've already stated a purpose (auto-x) which is a little tough for a street car as double duty, but very possible. Now talk about your vision a little more. Once you've narrowed that down, you can narrow your research down as to what's more right for you, and not just some dyno number that can change from location to location.

What ever you do, plan this bad boy right.. and when in doubt, plan again. Every build that i've done and experienced from others revolved around 3 lists; (1) Needs list (what you need to get the car operational, (2) a Want list (what you want to have to make this car your vision, and (3) your Have list (What parts you currently already have to get to your goal, such as the cylinder head, block, transmission, final drives, etc..)

Too many people just describe their experience as **** they just "slapped" on, and "magically" made it work. The real ballers on here that I've seen made their plans out to a "T" first before they bought anything, and never once did they have to resell any of their parts or re-plan anything; even if their financial situation changed. Hondas may be one of the easier platforms to modify but too many kids are just throwing stuff together and adding Horsepower based on the sensitivity of their asses; no proper air/fuel tuning, no research. Just crap they found on e-bay and used parts that they have no idea as to its characteristics.

Reading is a great start, but if you don't know what to read and how to interpret the discussions, he's just going to be spinning his wheels online. (no pun intended).

Sorry for the soap box fellas, but I just don't want the guy to waste his money on stuff that just "other people" say would be best for him without knowing the facts of those parts and that he has to have the right attitude so he doesn't regret it later. There's a ton of choices out there for him to choose from, all from great companies and people both in the U.S. and Japan that can make his build work, (Yes, some are better than others in terms of quality and repeatability) and he has to learn how to sift through the bullshit... plain and simple.

 

No soap box at all, I really appritiate it. That's what I want to do... Like you said I can't just read stuff that doesn't make sense to me.. I want to but nice parts so I only have to do it once. I want a nice mid range... When I autox I spend most my time in mid range rpm... This may not be right but its my driving style. I thank all you guys for the honest answers and the help... Keep it coming

 

Well, cool. but now the ball is back in your court. You want to auto-x in an ESP class, so you have to be careful or you'll just get put into the wrong class. Now, that is different from HPDE road race events where torque and midrange is even more important. In auto-x you'll barely be in 2nd & 3rd gear 90% of the time. In road racing, you'll be in 2-5 all day.

What chassis? Engine? What's been done to the car so far? What is the dream?

Here's an example of a "list" project breakdown from a friend of mine.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/shodan-project-she-2915107/

Take a look at that.. then start thinking of a plan. We're here to help.

 

If was going to build a motor, I'd get a set of skunk2 pro 2 cams there valve springs and titanium keepers, a set of ferra valves or supertech. Skunk2 cam gears and skunk2 composite fuel rail. Aem fuel pressure regulator, and a used SMSP header and heat wrap it. Get a 3inch exhaust and 3inch intake and play with the length on the dyno till you find what length works best.. and tap the front of the valve cover run some N/a lines to a catch can. I think 4-5k would cover that because you said u were going to do the work besides getting the block and head cleaned up and honed. Hondata intake manifold gasket and depending on motor size a skunk2 IM or something that will match this setup to work together with everything else.

 

That's a lot to deal with. But its not like you didn't answer the question of the thread.

 

he already said what car and motor he has, did you read his first post?

 

Yes, I did later. Was too lazy to correct myself after my ungodly long sermon. He'll be alright.

 

lol. preach ***** preach.

 

Thanks again guys, it looks like I'm going to go with supertech valvetrain and my friend stationed in japan is going to get me a spoon IM and I'm going with skunk2 cams I think, I have read a lot of good stuff on those... And to answer the other question, the car has wilwood big brakes all around, tein flex coilovers, skunk2 front and rear camber setup, blox lca, password jdm front and rear strut bars. Buddy club bucket seats with sparco 4 point belts. Misimoto radiator with fan, msd igniter, cap, coil, rotor combo... That's it for now... It corners great and handles the way I like, but I'm sick of the stock b18c1...

 

Well, now the question is which Skunk2 Cams? Many here will say Pro 2s, I tend to think that the Pro 1s are a better choice for lower to midrange power and torque.

As for the Spoon IM, (as an owner of several of Spoon's products) don't bother. The Skunk2 Pro Intake manifold is leaps and bounds better than the Spoon ever could. Considering the great products that you seem to plan so far, it would seem only prudent that you get the matching valvetrain to go with the camshafts from Skunk. (No mixing and matching).

PM for info on specific company pistons, combinations, do's and don'ts .

you're doing great so far. Now, keep the vision, so you can choose the right camshaft

 

Seems like some good infor here, Skunk2 2 pro intake is good the performer x seems to pull topend on it though, theres dynos all over the place. go with a good port and portmatch job. What i cant figure out is when do you really need a 3inch exhaust on an NA car, whp wise?

 

86x89 B series, Darton Sleeves, Carillo rods, Wiseco pistons, ARP studs, PR3 head CNC ported, Skunk 2 Pro 2 cams and gears, matching valvetrain with ITR valves, Kinsler ITB's, custom header, 3" exhaust... trying to go for down right all motor nasty HP and torque lol

 

what would you guys say is the best head gasket for an NA build?

 

ok so right now my problem is with what i believe to be my head gasket... i have a new radiator and im going to do a flush and a new thermostat and switch, i also got a new misimoto fan. since im going to be taking the head in for work im just going to replace the head gasket... what brand should i use? BC, greddy, buddy club? and what thicknes would you think?

 

Typically you would use the OEM headgasket around the rest of the build. thickness comes into play only when looking at the final static compression that you're looking for. In most 93 Octane cases (I'm not going to go into 91 Octane or E85 for simplicity reasons) but 11.5-12.3 after it is all said and done, (meaning you don't add compression by other means after the build) is about the safest range to go by. But don't fall for the typical and common notion that higher compression automatically leads to more power. This means your tune needs to be more precise from detonation, or god forbid, components like pistons and valves meeting each other, because you got too aggressive of a cam and your timing is off.

Most use OEM or Cometic (there are those who of course have issues with cometic for a variety of reasons). But the Buddy Club, Toda, and Greddy are all good choices, but don't account for the fact that they are mainly used by people who don't want to change the internals of the engine and want a "quick fix" bump in compression instead.

When you do the headwork, do yourself a favor, and don't mill it to the max like so many people here do. A simple resurfacing of .004" or so, enough to have it straight is fine. The same goes with the block if it is high mileage (i.e. 250K miles or more on it). You'll have to recalculate everything, and honestly, that's when people get into trouble.

If you're repairing this engine for break down and reassembly later, just use an OEM now to take care of your driving for now. There's no sense in going for a super thing gasket to bump up compression simply for the "time being". If head gasket is going bad, you may have other issues in which increased compression is making it worse. Wait until you build the engine to get the specific head gasket you need.