Hi there, I have a question about purchasing some Crower 403 non v-tec cams.

I've done a search, both here and through Google/Team-integra, and I know that what they recommend is upgrading the springs when you purchase a set of these cams.

What my question is, is whether or not you can stick with the stock retainers also, or if you have to purchase a set of aftermarket/titanium retainers. I've read mixed answers about this question. Does anyone else have more insight?

Also, I've seen people buy some items like a Apexi S-AFC. Is this required also? I guess what I'm really asking, is when you purchase a set of 403 cams, what's REALLY required to have it run proper. Thanks!

-Adam

Edit: I also read that buying a pair of adjustable cam gears is a pretty good option also, is this true?

 

i had this question too, i wound up goingwith aftermarket steel retainers. i got the brian crower ones for like 60 bucks. honestly i think you could get away with stock, especially if you keep the revs in the low to mid 7000rpm range. if taking the motor apart and inspecting for wear every year doesnt matter to you, get the ti retainers

 

crower has both steel and ti retainers to match the springs that you will use on your 403 cams. if you call crower and get a part number you can buy the springs and retainers as a matched set. summit racing would probably look up the number for you if you call & buy from them. also, remember to buy locks. i would not mix aftermarket retainers with factory locks. haven't closely looked at the honda design but it's a major no-no with other motors.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blackeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i had this question too, i wound up goingwith aftermarket steel retainers. i got the brian crower ones for like 60 bucks. honestly i think you could get away with stock, especially if you keep the revs in the low to mid 7000rpm range. if taking the motor apart and inspecting for wear every year doesnt matter to you, get the ti retainers</TD></TR></TABLE>

Gotcha, I don't really plan on revving the hell out of it, maybe 7k at the most, so I might try to stick with the stockies then. Cool.

And I don't really want to tear apart the motor every year, because I won't be here with the car in December, lol, and there's another swap going into it,

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by idrivesideways &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> also, remember to buy locks. i would not mix aftermarket retainers with factory locks. haven't closely looked at the honda design but it's a major no-no with other motors. </TD></TR></TABLE>

And more specifics on which locks you're speaking of? I can honestly say I've never heard of this part before... Wow, lol.

-Adam

 

2 locks per valve that when under pressure from the spring lock the retainer to the valve stem.

I've been told by a very reputable builder that it is fine to use stock locks aslong as they are not damaged. They are made from good material just like honda cranks.

 

Stock LS retainers are for single springs, the Crower springs are dual springs. Hope that answers your question.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid2007 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2 locks per valve that when under pressure from the spring lock the retainer to the valve stem.

I've been told by a very reputable builder that it is fine to use stock locks aslong as they are not damaged. They are made from good material just like honda cranks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is all i was talking about. as long as the retainer and valve are made to use the stock style lock, all should be fine. other engines i've built in the past have different lock styles available, sometimes retainers are made for a specific type. if honda keeps it simple & the aftermarket uses their style all should be well. since you are now using dual springs, the low cost but good option appears to be that you buy the crower springs with matching steel retainers as a package & use your stock locks. i haven't priced the spring that you need but the dual spring that i needed were only $211 with retainers. yours shouldn't be far off that price.


Modified by idrivesideways at 11:06 AM 9/12/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid2007 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2 locks per valve that when under pressure from the spring lock the retainer to the valve stem.

I've been told by a very reputable builder that it is fine to use stock locks aslong as they are not damaged. They are made from good material just like honda cranks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Gotcha, this engine I have only has at the most 50k miles on it, but I'll double check to make sure they're okay.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by idrivesideways &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
this is all i was talking about. as long as the retainer and valve are made to use the stock style lock, all should be fine. other engines i've built in the past have different lock styles available, sometimes retainers are made for a specific type. if honda keeps it simple & the aftermarket uses their style all should be well. since you are now using dual springs, the low cost but good option appears to be that you buy the crower springs with matching steel retainers as a package & use your stock locks. i haven't priced the spring that you need but the dual spring that i needed were only $211 with retainers. yours shouldn't be far off that price.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Alrighty, I'll probably buy the steel retainers just to be on the safe side then. Thanks for the help guys! Now then, what about this S-AFC/Adujstable cam gears? Those required also?

-Adam

 

definitely get rid of s-afc, there are better alternatives for a better price like crome, or neptune

 

and also cam gears are tune when u tune the car so u can extract all the power out of the cams

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AMLS4dr200whp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">definitely get rid of s-afc, there are better alternatives for a better price like crome, or neptune </TD></TR></TABLE>

So if I was to, say, have a chipped OBD1 Chipped P28 ECU, and I was to have it flashed with Chrome, would that work? <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AMLS4dr200whp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and also cam gears are tune when u tune the car so u can extract all the power out of the cams </TD></TR></TABLE>
Gotcha, cam gears it is,

-Adam

 

Cam gears are a must when installing cams.

As far as tuning goes, whatever you decide to do, the important thing is that you tune it for YOUR car by throwing it on a dyno. The program/software you use isn't nearly as important. DO NOT rely on a chipped ECU that is mass produced or tuned for someone elses car. The main disadvantage of a piggyback system like the ApexI is that you don't have as many tuning paramaters as you would on a tunable ECU (hondata, crome, neptune, etc), and you won't be able to fine tune your A/F ratio or idle nearly as well as a standalone ecu. You also can't tune part throttle. However if you are worried about smog the vafc is an option.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2LEM1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Cam gears are a must when installing cams.

As far as tuning goes, whatever you decide to do, the important thing is that you tune it for YOUR car by throwing it on a dyno. The program/software you use isn't nearly as important. DO NOT rely on a chipped ECU that is mass produced or tuned for someone elses car. The main disadvantage of a piggyback system like the ApexI is that you don't have as many tuning paramaters as you would on a tunable ECU (hondata, crome, neptune, etc), and you won't be able to fine tune your A/F ratio or idle nearly as well as a standalone ecu. You also can't tune part throttle. However if you are worried about smog the vafc is an option.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I was making sure, cause I know some people run them, but I wasn't too sure if something like a S-AFC was "required", shows how much I know wtf they are, haha. I'll be sure to have it dyno-tuned, thanks again guys!

As for smog, I don't have to worry about that, have out of state plates, and they don't even require emmisions there.

-Adam