There is no before dyno, hence no answer to my question.

 

Even if there aren't any dyno charts to prove this point, secondary data can pretty much tell you bolt ons won't help because

1) It's a single cam
2) It doesn't rev particularly high
3) It holds 1700cc worth of compressed gas
4) It's naturally aspirated

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ravenger &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is no before dyno, hence no answer to my question.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually not too long ago i came across a site that built up a D17 in an 05 civic ex 5sp, they did the usual, cold air kit, header, catback, and they only mad 6 hp and 4 lb ft of more torque for ONLY $1,100. lol, i'm gonna try and dig up the link if i can find it again.

 

its very basic it blows slow cant make it fast

 

I dont see the need for a "before"plot. Its a production motor, all of them make the same power +/- a slight tolerance. EX motors tend to make 112, the LX/DX around 100. Automatics slightly less.
Bolt ons do nothing. The car can only draw in as much as it can suck, that's not very hard, and it can only blow out what it sucks in, which isnt very much. Therefore, it makes no power, regardless of what you do. There is minimal restriction in the intake system pre-throttle, or in the exhaust.... hence, changing it wont do anything.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AcuraFanatic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Even if there aren't any dyno charts to prove this point, secondary data can pretty much tell you bolt ons won't help because

1) It's a single cam
2) It doesn't rev particularly high
3) It holds 1700cc worth of compressed gas
4) It's naturally aspirated </TD></TR></TABLE>

While this is all true, it isn't really why the D17 takes poorly to mods. The old D16 in the previous gen took pretty well to bolt-ons, especially the sohc vtec motor.

A lot of it has to do with the intake manifold/throttle body and the fuel system on the D17.

 

Quick question. What would you need to do to the d17 to make it a viable NA motor? New cam? New intake manifold? why wont you see any HP gain like you would in the older D and B series engines? I mean a b16 or b18 NA are pretty good motors. What makes ours so crappy?

 

apples and oranges. main differences are

DOHC vs SOHC
Vtec vs Vtec-E
Intake and Exhaust cams

 

There was an article in the magazine Honda Tuning back in 2001 where they added i/h/e and only made 5 whp on the d17 vtec motor. The issue really isn't the motor but more the emissions controls and the ecu. The 7th gen civic was made specifically for fuel economy and low emission output.

With the addition of the hondata kpro and the aem fuel controller you can potentially get more out of your motor with bolt ons and tuning but again it will be rather more expensive than dealing with the d16 and d15 motors where you didn't have to buy a programmable ecu for simple bolt ons.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vermont &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Quick question. What would you need to do to the d17 to make it a viable NA motor? New cam? New intake manifold? why wont you see any HP gain like you would in the older D and B series engines? I mean a b16 or b18 NA are pretty good motors. What makes ours so crappy? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Beefier rods, higher compression, a big cam and a 8000+ RPM redline. Just like any other weedwhacker motor... rev the hell out of it.

 

I'm sure our cars can be built up. Most people saying its not worth time are just repeating words heard from someone else. And that doesn't make it true. I'm going to take it upon myself to build d17 into a respectable daily driver. First, I gotta figure out how to change the oil.. haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. just kidding. Im wacked out right now on ambien. I'm really kinda out of it. The main thing that bothers me is when someone makes a post about lets say crower cams for their car. Someone always has to jump right in there and say don't bother, bolt ons are ****. I seriously doubt this person has any experience to be able to make that claim. People don't like to answer questions here. Someone posts a good question and people ignore it and tell him its pointless to do. That's very ucking annoying. Awhile back I asked about an performance ignition system for my 03 coupe. The question was just who makes one. I got all this other useless talk. Why do you need it? It won't make a difference unless you have a turbo. I'm willing to bet that the people posting that shiite know far less thenit seems.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ravenger &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm sure our cars can be built up. Most people saying its not worth time are just repeating words heard from someone else. And that doesn't make it true. I'm going to take it upon myself to build d17 into a respectable daily driver. First, I gotta figure out how to change the oil.. haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. just kidding. Im wacked out right now on ambien. I'm really kinda out of it. The main thing that bothers me is when someone makes a post about lets say crower cams for their car. Someone always has to jump right in there and say don't bother, bolt ons are ****. I seriously doubt this person has any experience to be able to make that claim. People don't like to answer questions here. Someone posts a good question and people ignore it and tell him its pointless to do. That's very ucking annoying. Awhile back I asked about an performance ignition system for my 03 coupe. The question was just who makes one. I got all this other useless talk. Why do you need it? It won't make a difference unless you have a turbo. I'm willing to bet that the people posting that shiite know far less thenit seems. </TD></TR></TABLE>

hi..hey you.. hello

stop now.

do u have any bolt ons to your d17? do u realize they havnt made you much faster? they dont.. some people actually know, because theyve done them. do u realize a crower cam IS NOT a bolt on? its actually an internal upgrade to the valvetrain...aka headwork. and actually people dont just post questions and get ignored. you are a noob... no offense.. but you are fairly new here... this site has been up and running for a very long time now and these questions have been covered long before... its 2007, our cars came out 01-03 first then 04-05... people have been trying different products by different manufacturers for a while now. BOLT ONS... intake/header/exhaust/cam gears/pulleys/ignition systems DO NOT add performance. while they improve the flow of air and may give the car a smooth rpm band pull, they dont add that much horsepower... from what the factory specs are and from what people have dyno'd after IHE...the results were minimal and not worth the effort or money. the d17 could quite possibly have SOME kind of potential. it has been built up..entirely and has come out beautifully with some amazing numbers for the D. but it does not come by easy or cheap or as quick as say another motor that has been thoroughly looked at, evaluated, respected and supported on. such as a k-series. the k-series was so welcomed and respected as a motor, they had mounts built for our chassis so we could have it to. the d17 was overlooked therefore not giving it that much support in the aftermarket industry. parts and builds are in turn.. very costly. and that, in turn, has developed little R&D. so.. when people are telling u this motor doesnt respond well and its useless... they are right. not only do these bolt ons not create power... they dont create enough that would justify the cost and/or effort of them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">While this is all true, it isn't really why the D17 takes poorly to mods. The old D16 in the previous gen took pretty well to bolt-ons, especially the sohc vtec motor.

A lot of it has to do with the intake manifold/throttle body and the fuel system on the D17.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the intake manifold and throttle body are not restricting the flow of air or the freedom of power for our motors. that is a myth. the design is fine.. since the amount of air and pressure entering the motor in the first place is not nearly enough to damage the manifold. and the way the throttle body is positioned, all cylinders get the same amount of air or pretty damn close, "dropped" into them. its not that bad of a design.. just not that good for high pressure situations (boost)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ravenger &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm sure our cars can be built up. Most people saying its not worth time are just repeating words heard from someone else. And that doesn't make it true. I'm going to take it upon myself to build d17 into a respectable daily driver. First, I gotta figure out how to change the oil.. haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. just kidding. Im wacked out right now on ambien. I'm really kinda out of it. The main thing that bothers me is when someone makes a post about lets say crower cams for their car. Someone always has to jump right in there and say don't bother, bolt ons are ****. I seriously doubt this person has any experience to be able to make that claim. People don't like to answer questions here. Someone posts a good question and people ignore it and tell him its pointless to do. That's very ucking annoying. Awhile back I asked about an performance ignition system for my 03 coupe. The question was just who makes one. I got all this other useless talk. Why do you need it? It won't make a difference unless you have a turbo. I'm willing to bet that the people posting that shiite know far less thenit seems. </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DsevenEm2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

hi..hey you.. hello

stop now.

do u have any bolt ons to your d17? do u realize they havnt made you much faster? they dont.. some people actually know, because theyve done them. do u realize a crower cam IS NOT a bolt on? its actually an internal upgrade to the valvetrain...aka headwork. and actually people dont just post questions and get ignored. you are a noob... no offense.. but you are fairly new here... this site has been up and running for a very long time now and these questions have been covered long before... its 2007, our cars came out 01-03 first then 04-05... people have been trying different products by different manufacturers for a while now. BOLT ONS... intake/header/exhaust/cam gears/pulleys/ignition systems DO NOT add performance. while they improve the flow of air and may give the car a smooth rpm band pull, they dont add that much horsepower... from what the factory specs are and from what people have dyno'd after IHE...the results were minimal and not worth the effort or money. the d17 could quite possibly have SOME kind of potential. it has been built up..entirely and has come out beautifully with some amazing numbers for the D. but it does not come by easy or cheap or as quick as say another motor that has been thoroughly looked at, evaluated, respected and supported on. such as a k-series. the k-series was so welcomed and respected as a motor, they had mounts built for our chassis so we could have it to. the d17 was overlooked therefore not giving it that much support in the aftermarket industry. parts and builds are in turn.. very costly. and that, in turn, has developed little R&D. so.. when people are telling u this motor doesnt respond well and its useless... they are right. not only do these bolt ons not create power... they dont create enough that would justify the cost and/or effort of them.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

omfg, have you guys heard of paragraphs? jebus.

When im not lazy and im done with the STi i want to build a D17a2 N/A

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by roost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">omfg, have you guys heard of paragraphs? jebus.

When im not lazy and im done with the STi i want to build a D17a2 N/A</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol he decided to write a **** ton of bullshit so i felt like owning him with no cliffs...

 

just........wow

matttttttttttttt helllllllllp

 

Oh man, you sure did own me. I guess if you say something enough times it becomes true.

 

lock this ******* thread please matt, I am so sick of this people getting on here and claiming " o I am going to be different and build/blow my d17" then you never hear from them again. for all of those who dont know you can swap a k into an em2 or turbo your d17. Both cost money and time and knowledge.

as for roost I am ok with him saying he wants to do it becasue he knows its hard and he just wants to do it. as for the op gtfo and have a wounderful day sir.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by roost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i want to build a D17a2 N/A</TD></TR></TABLE>

Which I still want to see how far it gets in that realm. Maybe run an R18 crank? (I do not know how the journals are spaced).

Anyways, ravenger, you're going to hate me for it but I have to lock this. You could easily search through the existing threads on this topic to find much needed information on the D17, and why it's not bolt-on savvy.