So I just picked up a '00 Civic Si yesterday; it's a little rough to some but perfect to me. Anyway, she's got soot around the tailpipe, spews a tad bit of gray smoke when over 40% throttle and 4000 RPM, and was really low on oil when I first got her. Obviously I'm being lead to believe that she's burning oil, and I'm going to run a compression check as soon as possible, but this situation lead to a big disagreement between my dad and I. When I expressed the hope that it was the rings (and therefore indeed burning oil) for the easy fix, my dad insisted that the valves should've lost seal long before the rings wore out. I was of the opposite view that with 120,000 miles on the engine, the valves should be fine and if anything, the rings are fucked. Since so many of you are experienced in building these motors, I wanted to know what you think. Should I expect bad rings, a needed valve job, or both? And also, provided an engine is perfectly taken care of, what typically wears out first?

 

It could be a few things, it really depends on how the car was treated and driven before you got your hands on it to determine what is more worn. If you have black soot on your bumper, that may not be oil, as much as it is carbon/soot from richness. This would occur if your car had no insides left on its Catalytic converter (or replaced with a test pipe) from just time and wear. Its basically unfiltered exhaust so to speak, and it settles around the back bumper.

Remember, Oil burns blue,
Richness burns black/grey
And white/grey is condensation in small amounts, but is coolant if its allot.

But to get to your question, in order to tell if its your rings, you should get a compression check on all 4 cylindars to get an idea of what state they are in. I would get that done first, and then go from there

 

The previous owner said that his "experienced Honda technician" told him the converter was bad, but when others suggested that it's more likely the O2 sensor it made sense since my dad and I both thought that the fuel gauge needle was dropping a little too quickly, there is vapor coming out of the pipe, and of course the soot. I'm going to just do my own ECU check and go from there. Maybe the guy just wanted to sell the previous owner the most expensive part he could. By the way, in what general mileage range does the converter typically wear out?

Also, the smoke was sort of a blue color and smelled like oil, not fuel. Looks like this motor needs more work than I thought.

 

if compression test is good then your rings are fine. that would only mean that your dad was right. the valve seal might need to be replaced. happened to my ls. definately the valve seal.

 

Okay, okay, okay! I just did my own ECU check based on the instructions in the CEL thread in this forum and I got one, one second flash. Number 10 on the list is intake temperature sensor. How funny is it that someone at work told me that his '03 Civic EX got a check engine light because of this since he couldn't plug the sensor into his short ram. Like the short ram the previous owner put on my car!!!! What do you guys think? Does this seem right?

 

Sounds more like the O2 sensor (code 1) then it does code 10. I think you read the code incorrectly. An OBD-2 scanner would confirm this assuming you still have the stock ECU. Do the compression test... also, do you notice a loss of oil on the dipstick? These higher revving engines like yours tend to eat some oil up top. Its happened to every single one I have owned (several).

 

One of the reasons I thought it might be burning oil is that my first dipstick check for the car showed oil below the "low" mark. I don't have the tools for a compression check but will get them as soon as possible.

Also, I thought that the '00 Civic Si was OBD-I and not II.

 

obd2 became standard in 1996.. theres exceptions to this.. but for the most part 1996... go to your local advance auto/auto zone/parts america.. they'll read the code for you.. for free..

 

What do I need to do? Just unplug everything from the ECU and take in just the unit alone? Or are there more steps to removing the ECU from the car? Sorry, I'm far more mechanically inclined than I am with electronics. By the way, will Checker do the code check, cause there's one right near my home.

 

drive the car to your local store and have them walk outside and hook their scanner up to the port that is under your steering column... im not exactly sure where it is.. i think its to the left by the hood release.. its a black port in
________
/________\

shaped something like that.. has 16 cavities..

 

Take the car and get the store to scan it. The port is to the left of the fuse cover just behind the drivers side lower panel.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hardedge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The previous owner said that his "experienced Honda technician" told him the converter was bad, but when others suggested that it's more likely the O2 sensor it made sense since my dad and I both thought that the fuel gauge needle was dropping a little too quickly, there is vapor coming out of the pipe, and of course the soot. I'm going to just do my own ECU check and go from there. Maybe the guy just wanted to sell the previous owner the most expensive part he could. By the way, in what general mileage range does the converter typically wear out?

Also, the smoke was sort of a blue color and smelled like oil, not fuel. Looks like this motor needs more work than I thought. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Really depends on the driving. If driven normal, it can last as long as the motor does (100k+) , or in the other extreme, ive had friends blow OE-quality cats out with in two weeks.

 

I just got a compression test kit, but sadly, as I got to the wet test (by the way, #3 is about half the pressure of the others, "dry") my battery didn't have enough juice left. Is it okay to jump, or should I just buy a battery charger?

Oh, and I ordered a Helms manual but don't have it yet. Can someone tell me what the pressure reading should be for the cylinders?

 

if #3 is low, there is your problem

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drtysohc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if #3 is low, there is your problem </TD></TR></TABLE>


Bingooo

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hardedge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just got a compression test kit, but sadly, as I got to the wet test (by the way, #3 is about half the pressure of the others, "dry") my battery didn't have enough juice left. Is it okay to jump, or should I just buy a battery charger?

Oh, and I ordered a Helms manual but don't have it yet. Can someone tell me what the pressure reading should be for the cylinders?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You shouldn't be cranking it over 900 times per cylinder. Do 5 or 6 cranks on each. Also, make sure you are testing with the engine warm, the coil disconnected (unplug the dist connector) and the throttle body wide open.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid96EK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You shouldn't be cranking it over 900 times per cylinder. Do 5 or 6 cranks on each. Also, make sure you are testing with the engine warm, the coil disconnected (unplug the dist connector) and the throttle body wide open.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Right, I'll admit that I double checked my book for the procedure but still forgot to prop the plate open, but the distributor was disconnected.

If you had to put it in crank time per cylinder, what would it be? A few seconds?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drtysohc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if #3 is low, there is your problem </TD></TR></TABLE>

Right, but I haven't done the wet test yet. I'm trying to figure out if it's (and hoping it's) the rings.

 

Alright, last time I tried to do the wet compression test, I put oil in the cylinder but my battery died. This morning I started over. I put the plugs back in , ran the engine to burn the oil out and recharge the battery. Now for starters, when I ran the engine the pipe smoked, but it smoked a lot more even after the point that the oil I put in would've burned, and then it finally setteled down while idling. However, when I would rev the motor a few thousand RPM it would start smoking again (a lot).

Anyway, I shut it off, disconnected the distributor, pulled out the plugs, and started the compression test all over again (this time at WOT for each test). Now I'm not getting any pressure in any of the cylinders. Am I overlooking something, or is it time to yank the head off? Someone please help!

 

U only take out the plug of the cylinder you are checking

 

What difference does it make if the cylinders are sealed off from each other? Besides, the first time I did the test I did it with every plug out and got a reading.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HarfordCTR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">U only take out the plug of the cylinder you are checking</TD></TR></TABLE>

That makes absolutely no difference in compression test result.s You have to have at least SOME compression there or that engine wouldn't be running at all. You need to add oil and see if the numbers come up or not so you can isolate the issue. Numbers go up, you have a problem in the bottom end (rings)... If they don't go up, suspect head issues. A leakdown is MUCH more effective for finding out the true source of the issue.

 

Here's the update. The compression gauge I bought was defective. I exchanged it for a new one of the same model and ran a dry test again and all of the cylinders were about 200 psi give or take five pounds, after five to seven cranks each.

I started noticing water being shot out of the exhaust and so I took a much closer eye/nose test of the smoke coming out. It's whiteish/greyish and doesn't smell like oil or fuel, so along with the moisture and a below "low" coolant resevoir, it must be burning coolant. There's hardly any smoke at idle, but a lot under load or at high revs. I'm going to refill the resevoir and keep running the car to see if it drops again. If it does, I'm going straight for the head gasket, and if that's the problem then it's metal gasket/ARP stud time!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hardedge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here's the update. The compression gauge I bought was defective. I exchanged it for a new one of the same model and ran a dry test again and all of the cylinders were about 200 psi give or take five pounds, after five to seven cranks each.

I started noticing water being shot out of the exhaust and so I took a much closer eye/nose test of the smoke coming out. It's whiteish/greyish and doesn't smell like oil or fuel, so along with the moisture and a below "low" coolant resevoir, it must be burning coolant. There's hardly any smoke at idle, but a lot under load or at high revs. I'm going to refill the resevoir and keep running the car to see if it drops again. If it does, I'm going straight for the head gasket, and if that's the problem then it's metal gasket/ARP stud time! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Get a block testing kit from Napa to confirm its head gasket before you spend the time to replace it. I haven't seen many of these MLS types of gaskets fail before. Not saying it couldn't happen, just its not that common.

 

I've never heard of a block tester. How does it work, what does it do, and how much do they cost? I would sure hope that the gasket would fail before the block.