I found this on an APS website. The WG tube comes from the internal wg port on the turbo. It's obvious they did this for packaging, but does this make sense?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DESTROYER &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I found this on an APS website. The WG tube comes from the internal wg port on the turbo. It's obvious they did this for packaging, but does this make sense?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

it works beter than having it in the manifold because thats EXACTLY where ALL the exhaust gas is.

 

it just seems like it has farther to travel to the TiAL than to get to the turbine wheel itself.

 

Yea but the turbine wheel is a bitch to get through compared to the wastegate.

 

That wastegate setup is probably overkill. Not going to creep in a million years.

 

Anything APS related, more then likey has enough R&D behind it, you should'nt worry about issue. ( Atleast if they still have the same guy Dave)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by k24em2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yea but the turbine wheel is a bitch to get through compared to the wastegate.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That makes sense actually. I was looking for a somewhat scientific answer to this question. I just realized also that the WG port hole is well before the turbine wheel. I have to keep realizing that this kit pictured is for moderate boost, not low boost.

 

That's exactly how I have the wastegate setup on my Volvo. I had originally planned on using a tubular manifold, but ended up going with a the cast S60R manifold which has no wg port.

I did have terrible boost spikes trying to hold 10psi until I ported the wastegate hole in the turbine housing. This is with a gt35r.

My butchered downpipe. heh. I used a portion of an old downpipe that we made a few years ago, hence the pie cuts. Works like a charm now though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurbochargedInnovation &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anything APS related, more then likey has enough R&D behind it, you should'nt worry about issue. ( Atleast if they still have the same guy Dave)</TD></TR></TABLE>

ya, had the aps marketing/engineer guy dave fly up from australia to check out our shop before we got the nw dealership, he seems to know his **** and the extreme kit we put on a 350z was basically dead nuts on perfect in every department. **** fits/works.


Marcus

 

where is your shop marcus? I drive I-5 all the time...Id like to stop by one of these days and check it out.

 

ok. so what is the theory behind this setup?

am i looking at a turbo that once had an internal waste gate that was converted to an external?

why would you do that?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.E.G. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok. so what is the theory behind this setup?

am i looking at a turbo that once had an internal waste gate that was converted to an external?

why would you do that?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Having an actuator arm going across the turbo is problematic for that setup and they'd get better lower boost control from those tial's .

 

I thought low boost would creep on such an extravagant setup? Thats what it seems like with every other setup?

 

Why do you think this will boost creep?

 

Well, it seems like the air has to travel a long way?

Sorry, long day, i'm so tired and "hungy" right now...

OK, I think I understand the concept; the air "pulse" isn't all by itself in the system, where it either has a choice to walk through the door at the turbine, or walk down a long hallway to bypass the turbine via door 2 aka wastegate.

The air is pressurized in the whole system, so when the wastegate opens, it is a massive low pressure zone in that area, so air will much rather prefer to walk down the long hallway crammed with all it's air pulse buddies rather than sit in a turnabout waiting to spin in a circle and perform work.

Jeebus I am retarded when I no sleep

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MidShipCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Having an actuator arm going across the turbo is problematic for that setup and they'd get better lower boost control from those tial's .

</TD></TR></TABLE>

so internal waste gates are prone to poor control of boost levels? if so, which why are they inclined? do they allow exhaust to by pass the turbo too much resulting in less boost, or do they not let enough out creating boost spikes.

sorry for sounding so ignorant. im not familiar with the term boost creep, although it seems to mean that it lets the boost out causing longer spool times, but im only getting that from context clues. can someone spell it out for me?

 

Internal wastegates vent the bypassed air very close to the turbine outlet which can disrupt flow, and more importantly they usually use a smaller hole to vent the gasses. This particularly becomes a problem when you're trying to run low boost on a larger turbo. The small wastegate hole simply cannot vent enough gas, so more of it goes through the turbine. This causes boost creep, and quite often boost spikes.

With my setup, I was trying to hold 10psi, but after 4k rpm when the turbo was really starting to flow, the wastegate hole simply could not flow enough and the boost would spike. This triggered boost cut by the standalone. I couldn't even get the car tuned, I had it on the dyno and the boost was totally uncontrollable. I took it home, pulled it all apart and ported the living **** out of the wastegate hole in the turbine and it completely fixed the problem.

 

People tend to "hate on" internal wastegates, but the truth is they work fine in applications that they were designed to be used in. In most cases, a external wastegate becomes necessary either if the turbo does not have an internal wastegate, or if the wastegate actuator and bracket won't fit in a certain application. (Personally, I just like to make custom brackets to fit the actuator)

They only times I have ever seen creep were either using a crappy manifold with an external wastegate (like SSAC), or when a turbo was too SMALL for the engine (which isn't a problem here since most Honda guys go way too big)

 

this setup is relying heavily on high exhaust pressures, if the turbos were really large or something where the exhaust pressure might be lower, or a really low boost setup this might not work well.

another issue i see with this setup is that most likely the size of the port on the exhaust housing for the internal gate is most likely much smaller then the actual size of the wastegate.

but if it works then it works, sometime its hard to predict if a setup is going to have problems or not.

 

I'd put money on that setup having boost dead nuts on the whole time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RTErnie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">where is your shop marcus? I drive I-5 all the time...Id like to stop by one of these days and check it out.</TD></TR></TABLE>


auburn, pm'd ya.

Marcus