yusoslo

***EDIT*** pics below


I have a deltagate wastegate that the side port is sent to vacuum and the top is left open.

Now i had the wastegate spring in once and out. Both times the wastegate will "POP" and the turbo wont spool.

the wastegate is a weird setup, it is attached to the downpipe flange, not the manifold, there are two seperate pipes for the DP and the wastegate line.....should I then reverse the output lines for the vacuum? or does it not make a difference




notice how it was internally gated but now the wastegate is mounted on the flange, but rerouted to the downpipe.

Modified by yusoslo at 1:22 PM 4/22/2004


Modified by yusoslo at 6:14 AM 4/23/2004

DaX

iTrader: (1)

Wastegate on the downpipe is not going to do anything for you. It must be able to relieve pre-turbine exhaust gas.

yusoslo

well it was manufactured this way so I dont know what to say. Turbo has no wastegate and the manufature did for a reason I guess.

there were turbo buicks that had this setup

Boltz

never heard of that setup, but think of it this way

if that wastegate is open and is on the downpipe, its just going to act like an E-cutout and relieve exhaust gas pressure post turbo .... so all your doing there is making your exhaust more free flowing (more power)

if there was a wastegate on the manifold on an internal one on the turbo I guess I could understand having an extra wastegate on the downpipe to act like an e-cut out when under boost, but that just seems retarded.

are you sure the thing doesnt have an internal gate attached to the compressor side?

EDIT: Now, that you added pics I understand what you are talking about..... I bet your problem is with that rigged downpipe + wastegate combo


Modified by Boltz at 4:41 PM 4/22/2004

RTW DC2R

wastegate regulates boost. if there is no wastegate, it will boost til the turbo/motor/etc blow to bits. there has to be an internal gate in there thats malfunctioning or something.

yusoslo

no boost to the motor.

wastegate is open at exaust is passing through it.

the turbo exhasust side has a hole on it next to the compressor wheel that allows the routing of the wastegate next to the downpipe

SeanEF

If your WG is mounted to the downpipe that has nothing to do with you not getting boost....if it was on the manifold then that would be a different story. In your case the xhaust gas has already gone through the turbo and is hitting the WG on its way out....I can't see how your setup would work. Did you buy it like this or did you mount it there yourself??? Between this post and your other one about not running a WG spring you might wanna rethink your turbo setup..post some pics might help us out in figuring out what is wrong

SeanEF

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yusoslo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the turbo exhasust side has a hole on it next to the compressor wheel that allows the routing of the wastegate next to the downpipe</TD></TR></TABLE>

WTF!!??

m R g S r

You sure it's not mounted to the turbo flange? I have seen that setup before, not connected to the downpipe.

RTW DC2R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yusoslo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

the turbo exhasust side has a hole on it next to the compressor wheel that allows the routing of the wastegate next to the downpipe</TD></TR></TABLE>

that JUST MIGHT explain it...

seen4ever

first: it sounds like you have an internal wastegate manifold with a turbo that is setup for an external wastegate.

It sounds like your turbo might have the port for the internal wastegate, but someone didn't put one on there and instead put an external wastegate on the downpipe.

yusoslo

well all I can say is the turbo progressivly stopped spooling. IT will if I can throttle it just right but if I give it too much gas the wastegate opens, and it is a real weird POP from the piston slamming.

last night it spooled in every gear
this moring here and there
this afternoon hardly at all

the turbo is getting tons of oil and looks good.

Could it be that my downpipe is not very flush against the turbine housing???

maybe after driving it came loose, I can actuall see a gap between the 2 like ~1mm

but the wastegate just keeps popping open even if I have the spring installed

seen4ever

that is the standard hole for an internal gated turbo. If you were running an internal wastegate, it would go there with a flapper valve and would be used to control boost. There is no flapper and no internal wastegate, therefore the turbo should be spooling to its max and blowing up your motor.

a wastegate must be installed before the turbo, even internal gated turbos regulate pre-exhaust flow that is going into the turbo.

by having your wastegate running off the downpipe, it cannot regulate boost.

First where did you get this setup from? Find that person and kill them. I guess if the flanges where worked correctly it might be able to work, just because I know DSM people convert thier 02 housing to run external gates, but I'm unsure how.

Either way, running a wastegate off the downpipe is not how you control boost. the downpipe lets out the pressure from the turbo, the wastegate is used to control the pressure before the turbo.

mitsuman

iTrader: (1)

well it looks like your WG is on the same flange as the downpipe but it is not connected to the downpipe. just because its on the same flange doesnt mean there connected. i see how that would work if they werent connected. are you sure there is a spring in the wg? cuz it should open at the least psi 4 or 6 i believe.

yusoslo

yes yes!! you got it right. Finally they are not connected. IT was my fault in typing too fast.

There are two seperate pipes coming off the flange. one is wastegate and one is downpipe

SeanEF

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yusoslo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There are two seperate pipes coming off the flange. one is wastegate and one is downpipe</TD></TR></TABLE>

So it's not connected to the downpipe!? First off put the spring back where it belongs and see if that cures your problem...and what exactly do you mean by "POP" like a backfire pop??

yusoslo

ok, got a few things straight.

after fooling around with the deltagate I realized that it was never opening at all! the poping is coming from inside the turbo.

the turbo used to be internally gated and what I think happened was that the first time I started it carbon and such buildup keep it closed. There is no regulator on the back of the center housing of the turbo, so I think the internal flapper is just moving free as a bird.

does this make sense?

If a internal turbo is converted to an external it needs to have the gate welded shut right!?

kpt4321

Slow down and think about how everything is working here.

The wastegate takes exhaust from before the turbine wheel, and routes it around the turbine wheel (so that this exhaust never makes it though the turbine).

Then mentally follow the two paths that your exhaust can take (through the wastegate, and through the turbine wheel). If you weld the wastegate flapper shut, then the exhaust is never ever going to be able to make it to your external.

On a setup where the external is mounted on the outlet of what used to be an internal wastegate, you need to remove the flapper and open the hole up.

DaX

iTrader: (1)

^^What he said. If your turbo is the one pictured up top, the flapper box has already been removed.

DaX

iTrader: (1)

Here's a scary thought [after reading your other post]...your compressor wheel hasn't come loose from the turbine wheel shaft has it?

90civichbsi

iTrader: (1)

ive seen setups like this before and it works just the same as an external wastegate on the manifold.. its just closer to the turbine.

as for your problems with not getting boost, im not sure.. but id check and make sure everything on the turbo and deltagate are funtioning properly.

SeanEF

This is making my brain hurty Did you mount the wastegate or did someone else??


Modified by Sulli at 9:32 PM 4/22/2004

Alstare

Well just from looking at the pics, it looks to me like...

1&gt; The turbo has been converted to external wastegate&lt;duh we know that!&gt;
2&gt; You have a manifold designed for an internal wastegate&lt;duh we also know that!&gt;
3&gt; You mounted your wastegate to the flange on the downpipe that would normally be connected to the output side from the wastegate, to complete a closed loop setup.

I think your setup is missing, the flange on the manifold to properly mount your wastegate.

If you look just above your WG in that pic you can almost picture how it would workout perfectly if you had the wastgate mounted on the mani and pointing down so the outpt from the wastegate would bolt up to the DP.

I'd suggest either:

A&gt;welding the flapper closed, and adding a flange for your WG on the mani.
B&gt;Putting all the internal WG parts back on the turbo, and venting the internal WG port out.

These are just my assumtions from the pics...

kpt4321

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Alstare &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
B&gt;Putting all the internal WG parts back on the turbo, and venting the internal WG port out.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why is that a good option? The setup he has now is just like an internal, except if flows better and will offer better control.

mh

i've never opened that type of wastegate, but if its anything like the tial sport, a deffect spring may resuli in this problem. don't have to open it just remove it and feel the springpressure.

youre sure the vacumelines are connected correct? if it's on the wrong side on the wg that'll cause it to open before the turbo gets to spool up and you'll never se boost.

my 2 cents