WHY SLEEVE CYLINDERS FOR HIGH HP APPLICATION
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WHY SLEEVE CYLINDERS FOR HIGH HP APPLICATION
New to the field,
I'm working on a LS/VTEC project and I don't understand why must I sleeve my cylinders when it's gotten factory sleeves in it? Please brain wash me, NEED HELP SOON!!!
Desire approx. 550 hp
B16A2 HEAD ON B18A1 90-93 GENERATION
WILL USE B18A1 CRANK (balance & micro polish)
FORGE PISTONS & RODS
TYPE R CAMS & DUAL VALVE SPRINGS
B16A2 INTAKE MANIFOLD
TURBO CHARGE PROJECT IS THE MAJOR PLAN (if must willing to push 20 psi)
Need some suggestion
<< NEED HELP, PLEASE >>
I'm working on a LS/VTEC project and I don't understand why must I sleeve my cylinders when it's gotten factory sleeves in it? Please brain wash me, NEED HELP SOON!!!
Desire approx. 550 hp
B16A2 HEAD ON B18A1 90-93 GENERATION
WILL USE B18A1 CRANK (balance & micro polish)
FORGE PISTONS & RODS
TYPE R CAMS & DUAL VALVE SPRINGS
B16A2 INTAKE MANIFOLD
TURBO CHARGE PROJECT IS THE MAJOR PLAN (if must willing to push 20 psi)
Need some suggestion
<< NEED HELP, PLEASE >>
Night Owl
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From: the restaurant at the end of the universe
Re: WHY SLEEVE CYLINDERS FOR HIGH HP APPLICATION (vtec_avenue)
LS blocks are NOT sleeved from the factory, unlike F22 blocks TMK. I could be completely wrong on this though.
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Re: WHY SLEEVE CYLINDERS FOR HIGH HP APPLICATION (shutupnskate)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shutupnskate »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LS blocks are NOT sleeved from the factory, unlike F22 blocks TMK. I could be completely wrong on this though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
F22's, H22's, and some other motors use FRM sleeves which are a carbon fiber aluminum composite material. The sleeves are incredibly strong, but you cannot run forged aluminum pistons because aluminum against aluminum will eat itself. Most people have those blocks sleeved so they can run forged aluminum pistons.
The LS has sleeves from the factory, but they are a much weaker material than aftermarket sleeves. The material is superior and usually have some sort of reinforcement (not always) and tend to be thicker than stock sleeves. The reason you want to sleeve is for insurance against a poor tune at that kind of power. Stock sleeves can take that kind of power, but the margin of error for tuning is very small and any little hiccup in the tune will crack the sleeve.
F22's, H22's, and some other motors use FRM sleeves which are a carbon fiber aluminum composite material. The sleeves are incredibly strong, but you cannot run forged aluminum pistons because aluminum against aluminum will eat itself. Most people have those blocks sleeved so they can run forged aluminum pistons.
The LS has sleeves from the factory, but they are a much weaker material than aftermarket sleeves. The material is superior and usually have some sort of reinforcement (not always) and tend to be thicker than stock sleeves. The reason you want to sleeve is for insurance against a poor tune at that kind of power. Stock sleeves can take that kind of power, but the margin of error for tuning is very small and any little hiccup in the tune will crack the sleeve.
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From: CO, USA
Re: WHY SLEEVE CYLINDERS FOR HIGH HP APPLICATION (shutupnskate)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shutupnskate »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LS blocks are NOT sleeved from the factory, unlike F22 blocks TMK. I could be completely wrong on this though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
LS blocks do have sleeves. I'm not aware of any Honda engine that doesn't. If you have the head off of the engine, a simple test to prove this is to stick a magnet to the cylinder wall... magnets don't stick to aluminum, but they will stick to iron and steel, so the fact that it sticks tells you that it's not just aluminum. Cylinder walls made out of aluminum would be super crappy anyway.
Stock LS sleeves can take a good amount of pressure. I know plenty of people who have run as much as 15-20 PSI on stock sleeves without any problems whatsoever. I have been turboed @ 9 psi (occasionally turning it up to 14 or so) on stock LS internals for over 3 years now, and this is a road course car, so it sees a hell of a lot more prolonged abuse than the 1/4 mile guys, but it has held up really well. Just tune it right so you don't get it too hot or have knock, and then you shouldn't have to worry about it until you're running super high cylinder pressures (ie 15+ psi, high C/R, etc).
Modified by Weston at 3:25 PM 9/30/2006
LS blocks do have sleeves. I'm not aware of any Honda engine that doesn't. If you have the head off of the engine, a simple test to prove this is to stick a magnet to the cylinder wall... magnets don't stick to aluminum, but they will stick to iron and steel, so the fact that it sticks tells you that it's not just aluminum. Cylinder walls made out of aluminum would be super crappy anyway.
Stock LS sleeves can take a good amount of pressure. I know plenty of people who have run as much as 15-20 PSI on stock sleeves without any problems whatsoever. I have been turboed @ 9 psi (occasionally turning it up to 14 or so) on stock LS internals for over 3 years now, and this is a road course car, so it sees a hell of a lot more prolonged abuse than the 1/4 mile guys, but it has held up really well. Just tune it right so you don't get it too hot or have knock, and then you shouldn't have to worry about it until you're running super high cylinder pressures (ie 15+ psi, high C/R, etc).
Modified by Weston at 3:25 PM 9/30/2006
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From: Further down the spiral, TX, usa
Re: WHY SLEEVE CYLINDERS FOR HIGH HP APPLICATION (Dartanian)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dartanian »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
F22's, H22's, and some other motors use FRM sleeves which are a carbon fiber aluminum composite material. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Nope, F-series engines have iron sleeves. H22s and H23s have FRM sleeves.
F22's, H22's, and some other motors use FRM sleeves which are a carbon fiber aluminum composite material. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Nope, F-series engines have iron sleeves. H22s and H23s have FRM sleeves.
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Re: WHY SLEEVE CYLINDERS FOR HIGH HP APPLICATION (Hawkze_2.3)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hawkze_2.3 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nope, F-series engines have iron sleeves. H22s and H23s have FRM sleeves.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I am not familiar with F series motors. C series NSX motors also have the FRM sleeves.
Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I am not familiar with F series motors. C series NSX motors also have the FRM sleeves.
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From: Further down the spiral, TX, usa
Re: WHY SLEEVE CYLINDERS FOR HIGH HP APPLICATION (Dartanian)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dartanian »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I am not familiar with F series motors. C series NSX motors also have the FRM sleeves.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, the F22s, F23s from Accords and Preludes are all iron sleeves, but I'm not sure about an F20 or F22 from an S2000...
Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I am not familiar with F series motors. C series NSX motors also have the FRM sleeves.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, the F22s, F23s from Accords and Preludes are all iron sleeves, but I'm not sure about an F20 or F22 from an S2000...
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