OOK i dropped my car about 2 inches last May with H&R sports and KYB AGXs. Now mine front tires are totally done becuase I procrastinated getting a camber kit or alignment for 9 months. I got my new tires on a few days ago and this morning i took my car to Goodyear to get an alignment. He told me he cant adjust the camber due to my modified suspension so he said he would do everything else. i said OK. I get my car back and now it still veers to the left if i let go of the wheel. On the paper he gave me it shows that he adjusted the toe. I called GOodyear and they said to bring it back and they could possibly charge me more.

Im just wondering if the camber is what could be making my car still go to the left? or what else it could be. or should they have made it go straight even though they didtn change the camber.


...and since they did adjust the toe, my tires should last me a lot longer shouldn't they even know my goes doesnt drive straight?






Modified by nikker at 2:33 PM 2/17/2006

 

The three adjustment perameters in an alignment cause the following

Camber: The car will pull to the side with the greater positive camber value
Caster: The higher the caster angle, the greater the tendency to roll straight, and the the harder to steer off center
Toe: compensates for rolling / dynamic forces which normally try to rotate the wheels around an axis drawn thru the ball joints such that while rolling, the wheels point straight ahead or slightly inward.

P

 

hahaha, i work at centreville goodyear......

 

Centreville Goodyear's spec sheet bears out what I said.

You've got camber readings of:
-1.5d on the Left Side
-2.8d on the Right Side

The left side has the higher (More positive) value

P

 

Tanner is such an f***** A******. he RIPPED off my front lip. I guess he didnt know i was watching. and then he comes up to me and says we might have to charge you for labor for that. I was like i watched you RIP it off through the glass waiting room. and he goes why didnt YOU just rip it off before you came and i was like i would have removed the screws actually. and then hes like yea im a ***. and i was like yea i know.

Euro R truco.......i hope your name isnt tanner. cuase i hate you then.

 

Well Fred, it looks like you're off the hook (at least for ripping off "nikker's" front lip). Now I'm just trying to fathom why you'd laugh at the situation.
Bacause he had the misfortune of picking Centreville Goodyear for doing what he needed, or was it because he needs to do additional work elsewhere?

 

nah, dont worry, im not tanner, i work there as night crew. Yea, tanner can be a dick. Hes picky when it comes to lowered cars. I wasnt laughing at the situation of the alignment of the car, i laughed that he said Centreville goodyear, my workplace.

 

yea w.e u do never have tanner align your car cause hes an a-hole. everyone at the shop hates him b.c he doesnt like doin things. i also work at goodyear with fredy on night crew at the elube section.

 

what is a fair price for an alignment?? this local shop does it for 40 dollars, should i trust them

 

Camber is the angle of the wheel, measured in degrees, when viewed from the front of the vehicle. If the top of the wheel is leaning out from the center of the car, then the camber is positive ,if it's leaning in, then the camber is negative. If the camber is out of adjustment, it will cause tire wear on one side of the tire's tread. If the camber is too far negative, for instance, then the tire will wear on the inside of the tread.

Camber wear pattern
If the camber is different from side to side it can cause a pulling problem. The vehicle will pull to the side with the more positive camber. On many front-wheel-drive vehicles, camber is not adjustable. If the camber is out on these cars, it indicates that something is worn or bent, possibly from an accident and must be repaired or replaced.

try something..loosen up the rear cross member bolts ( 4... 17mm ) get a pry bar and pry the cross member left , , while holding the pry bar , tighten the bolts on the cross member ..

 

The $40.00 price sounds a little "light in the loafers" considering what needs to be done for a proper alignment check and adjustment.
They may be quoting for a front wheel alignment; but what's required for a 4 wheel independent suspension is a 4 wheel alignment.
This is where they install the alignment heads to all 4 whells.
Thr reason it's so involved?
They first align the rear whells to the vehicles centerline (to establish a baseline) and to insure the car doesn't 'crab' down the street,
Then they align the front wheels referencing off the rear wheel alignment heads.

They probably charge the $40. based on the fact that they probably do no more than set the toe, have a beer and give it a few "Hail Mary's". And in truth, this is most times sufficient for 80% of the Honda's in service

I'd expect it more like $65.00 for a 4 wheel alignment, plus the Labor for alignment kit installations if the alignment is WAY out unless it's packaged with a tire purchase (or something)

P

 

Is it possible for a place like Tire Kingdom to adjust my camber?

I had an accident, a few weeks after I got the car (1 1/2 years ago), did some nice damage to the front left quarterpanel, driver side door, and put some scrapes on the front left wheel. (hit by a f350) They did the repairs and there wasn't much damage to the axle or anything else. Recently, I had 17" wheels put on a month ago with correspondingly thinner sidewalled tires and just yesterday the car was lowered. I'm getting the alignment done today, is there anything else I can do?

And I get free alignment/balancing so no worries on cost.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nikker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im just wondering if the camber is what could be making my car still go to the left?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...and since they did adjust the toe, my tires should last me a lot longer shouldn't they even know my goes doesnt drive straight?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes.

You know what, though? I think I'd go somewhere that people really know what they're doing, and make sure the height is what you meant for it to be.

I suggest that your height is not adjusted correctly. I don't understand why there would be such a huge difference in camber left/right unless one side is lower than the other.

Where to get an alignment: You need to go somewhere that people enjoy their jobs and are genuinely intersted in the enthusiast market and performance applications.

You might have to talk to people about what your purpose is in lowering the car so they know you're not a complete freaking ricer lunatic.

I get my cars aligned next to the state police station out here in Culpeper. When I first met the technician, he was on the way out to tell me that the camber was ridiculously out of kilter, and he was shocked to find a 50 year old track driver waiting fo rhim.

When I explained exactly why I wanted 2.5 degrees negative on the front and 1.5 degrees negative on the rear, and talked about how it was being driven, he understood and proceded to do the correct total toe and total overall thrust correctly, and with my application in mind.

When you start doing weird things like this, you can't just assume people will automatically go as far out of the way as they need to go to take care of you.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by msedacca &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is it possible for a place like Tire Kingdom to adjust my camber? </TD></TR></TABLE>
No Accord's camber is adjustable the way the car leaves the factory.

Yes, they can set the camber for you if you've bought adjustable A arms or adjustable ball joints for the car.

The shop and the technician have to be interested in performance applications, and they have to be interested in doing a good job.

You, on the other hand, have to realise that you're going to pay more for an alignment than other people do. It's a good idea to make it clear that you're looking for a "competition alignment" and mention total overall thrust as if you know what you're talking about. And don't expect a lifetime warranty!

 

This will be my 5th or 6th time going in there to have something done. They've done all my wheel/tire work, and I purchased a lifetime alignment/balancing "plan". I know the technician pretty well, and they actually hold my winter tires in their shop for me. I'll talk to him today about what you said with "total overall thrust" and a "competition alignment".

Is it important that I look into a set of adjustable A arms and adjustable ball joints as to not wear out my tires (which I don't want to be replacing often because they are expensive).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by msedacca &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is it important that I look into a set of adjustable A arms and adjustable ball joints as to not wear out my tires ....</TD></TR></TABLE>
It is usually a misalignment of toe that causes wear, and it is usually a misunderstanding and misalignment of total thrust that gives the car a darty feeling because the front and rear are fighting each other.

Negative camber is an important aspect of good overall handling, and camber will not wear out the tyres up to and including 2.5 degrees negative. On a CM8 Accord 6-6, for example, the installation of the HFP suspension supplied by Honda calls for 2.2 degrees negative camber on the rear, and this is with no penalty to tyre wear.

 

So, I went to get the alignment done, and boy was I right. Apparently the front left wheel took a beating during the accident because the caster and camber was way out of whack. Unfortunately, since Accord's come stock w/o changeable camber, I have to buy a kit. Here were the numbers, since I couldn't scan a pic on.

Caster (not sure what that is but there was only 2 readings) 4.10 degrees on the left and 3.90 degrees on the right.

Camber
Front left -.53 degrees
Front right -.16 degrees
Back left -1.55 degrees
Back right -2.20 degrees

They readjusted the toe accordingly and it was a minute adjustment. The technician really expressed his concern with the left caster and asked me if I had smacked it with a sledgehammer or something. Well, I guess a double rear wheel F350 will have that effect.

I'm going to get that Alignment kit in the mail ASAP. Any other comments George?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by msedacca &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Caster (not sure what that is but there was only 2 readings) 4.10 degrees on the left and 3.90 degrees on the right.

Camber
Front left -.53 degrees
Front right -.16 degrees
Back left -1.55 degrees
Back right -2.20 degrees

They readjusted the toe accordingly and it was a minute adjustment. The technician really expressed his concern with the left caster and asked me if I had smacked it with a sledgehammer or something. Well, I guess a double rear wheel F350 will have that effect. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, your car turns faster in one direction than it does the other.

It's not that bad. The difference in caster left/right, while indicative of an accident, is not so out of spec that it would cause a problem.

The difference in camber in the front is not bad, either.

The difference in camber in the rear is a little excessive, however.

If the car is at the height you want, then a rear camber kit would allow you to equalise it.

I'm curious about why you're focusing on the left front. It doesn't seem to me (just from looking at the figures) that it's the left front that is a problem.

 

Thank you