I went to a local auto shop today to see about setting up an appointment to get all my new suspension upgrades installed. The shop had been very highly recommended to me. If you read the bottom of my sig, you can see everything that is going into the install. He quoted me around 600 bucks to install it all and align it. That's ridiculous. I was told he charged 400 bucks to drop a full size truck which involves C-notching the frame with a plama cutter. 600 bucks for bolt ons? come on. So i have decided to try the install myself, hopefully with the help of a friend or relative, tomorrow. I have a 5 day weekend (lucky me ) starting tomorrow so i think im gonna go to sears and buy myself a really nice tool set (i've been wanting to for a long time because my dad's tools are misplaced often) and get to work. I will have plenty of time to do the install, hopefully. Anyone have any advice? Thanks guys.

 

Depends on his prevaling labor rate. 10 hours at 60.00/hr doesn't seem too out of line, considering what's involved.

[quote] Fr & Rr Upper Strut bars, Rr lower tie bar, Fr & Rr Suspension Tech sway bars, Ground Control springs and KYB AGX struts, Ingalls Fr camber kit, Ingalls rear adjustable upper control arms. [quote]

1) Front upper strut bar....................0.6hr
2) Rear upper strut bar.....................0.5hr
3) Rear Lower strut bar.....................0.4hr
4) Front Anti-Sway bar (drop exhaust - front)... 1.4hr
5) Rear Anti-Sway bay (" ").............. 1.3hr
6) Front Strut Assemble (both) ..........3.0hr (2x1.5hr)
7) Camber kits front.........................1.2hr (2x0.6hr)
8) Upper Control Arms (rear) ...........2.0hr (2x1.0hr)
9) Four Wheel Alignment ..................1.5hr

.................................................. ...12.0hrs
$600.00 / 12.0 = $40.00/hr Labor rate

and if I had my Flat Rate Time guide, it would most likely be worst.

P





Modified by P_Adams at 4:32 AM 1/12/2006

 

I'm always amazed that people expect techs to work dirt cheap, it's already a disturbing trend at dealerships. I think guys in my profession should make more than minimum wage. The shops rates take into account ALL the operating costs as well as the techs pay. It's easy to bad mouth the techs pay when you are doing it yourself on the weekend and count your labor as FREE.

 

shouldnt i be able to install the front and rear sway bars as well as the rear tie bar without much trouble? im leary about working underneath my car because i dont trust my father's jackstand's that much. might try to find some cinder blocks. But im not sure exactly how the sway bars connect to the control arms and if i will have problems installing them. Also, i will definitely have to remove or lower the exhaust to install the sway bars?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondadude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm always amazed that people expect techs to work dirt cheap, it's already a disturbing trend at dealerships. I think guys in my profession should make more than minimum wage. The shops rates take into account ALL the operating costs as well as the techs pay. It's easy to bad mouth the techs pay when you are doing it yourself on the weekend and count your labor as FREE. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont mean any disrespect towards techs at all. I guess i just cant see spending that much when i've already spent a good deal on the products themselves is all. If the install is not something that i can do myself, then im going to suck it up and get the professionals to do it. If i can save some cash i will, but i do not want to take the chance of screwing things up to the point that i cant get the car fixed or put back to the original position. That's why im looking for advice to see if i should actually try to do this.

 

Of course there are items of which you can do yourself. It's just having the wisdom to understand what you should leave for the "Professionals" that has to come into play here.
All the times I quoted here, were for the repairs being <U>performed in a shop </U>(clean, dry and warm) with the <U>proper tools</U>, a <U>twin post lift</U>, an <U>air compressor</U>, <U>pnumatic tools</U> and the sundry lubricants and materials possibly needed.

The danger (not only to body) of doing this at home is that what would take 12 hours in a shop could take days at home.

P

 

Ive never put in a camber kit before..But on the rest of it..It's all pretty easy---Don't get me wrong it's going to take awhile to do but it's just a matter of unbolting whats there and putting the new parts on..

you'll need a spring compressor.If you don't have one you can borrow them at auto zone for like a $40.00 deposit.And you will need a balljoint puller so you can get your tierod ends loose.It makes it easier to get the lower sway bar on.
And when you use the balljoint puller leave the nut threaded on the tierod end so the the nut is over the little holes for the cotter pins.It keeps the threads from crushing.On older balljoints thats happens about everytime.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chestnut_55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
might try to find some cinder blocks.
.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Man don't use cinder blocks Just get some decent jackstands.I'm a concrete finisher and when i first started out I worked for a guy that laid block walls to.So I know something about cinder blocks they can crumble at anytime.Then it may cost you more than just $600

 

It also depends, will they do an alignment once its all installed? The car will settle more in thhe next few weeks and youll need a realignment anywy, bu tthat could be why it's more pricey as well as the 40/hr.

However looking at different places, i've seen them charge between 40-50 an hour so its not that outrageous.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by P_Adams &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Of course there are items of which you can do yourself. It's just having the wisdom to understand what you should leave for the "Professionals" that has to come into play here.
All the times I quoted here, were for the repairs being <U>performed in a shop </U>(clean, dry and warm) with the <U>proper tools</U>, a <U>twin post lift</U>, an <U>air compressor</U>, <U>pnumatic tools</U> and the sundry lubricants and materials possibly needed.

The danger (not only to body) of doing this at home is that what would take 12 hours in a shop could take days at home.

P</TD></TR></TABLE>

a week, changing my camshaft man, almost 5 to 6 hours per day on it.

he is so right,,, 8 am and ready to end assembling the da** thing.

 

So would it be practical to just spend the money and get the professionals to do it? I have the money and this project is the last one that i plan to do on my car. Everything else with the car is just as i want it at this place in my life. I jacked the car up on jackstands this morning, less than an hour ago acutally, and started looking at what all had to be done. Despite being that i believe i could do most of the work, i still feel quite uneasy with the transmission looming mere inches over my chest and i dont trust my jackstands that much. Not to mention that i still have yet been able to find someone to help me do the work. Any comments would be appreciated.

 

If you have the cash...then I would suggest paying a professional to do it and do it right. At least you won't need to worry about cinder blocks and unsafe jack stands! Life and limb are far more worth $600!!!

 

Go buy some new jackstands then. If you don't feel comfortable doing it which it seems like you don't I'd take it to a shop. Myself I'd probably do it unless I was in a bind and needed it done quickly. That price seems resonable but it couldn't hurt to go to a few other shops and get quotes. If one is cheaper ask the first if he could do it for that price. If you feel the least bit uncomfortable I'd take it to a shop as it's not worth saving $600 to have a car fall on you.

 

ok, I may be wrong but aren't the front struts on a 96' accord McPherson? And isn't that a little dangerous to be doing work with those at home? I've heard stories of serious injury and death from the force of your springs under that kind of tension.

 

If you can't find a friend who knows what they're doing to help you, you should probably take it to a shop. It becomes a safety issue when you're working with springs and don't have any idea what you're doing.

 

If you have the space to work on it and you want to learn how to do it, then go for it. Just understand that doing it yourself doesn't necessarily save you in the money - it may actually cost you more. If you have to take it to a shop, don't feel bad because they are worth every penny.

 

There's always that argument about what should be attempted and what can be attempted.
Case in point: <U>zerobacan</U>
Because of economic constraints, the avenues to getting his ride together forced him to attempt a Broken Camshaft repair himself. Much to his credit, he buttoned it up (after a week of 6hr days) and had it running and adjusted. Good job, happy ending but for one thing: the replacement cam broke in the same place.
Back to square one. One week later and out that money.
My point?
It may cost more to have a shop perform the work, but if anything should go wrong, IT'S ON THEIR SHOULDERS, NOT YOURS - and you'd pay nothing additional because of their problem.
It's the wisdom of knowing what you (personally) can accomplish that makes for an enjoyable episode.

P

 

Planning, Tools, and knowing your limits. Think about these things, before you start. But most of all SAFETY IS JOB ONE!!!! Maybe wait another week, and think about it, and do some more planning (get some help) if you want to do it yourself. Good Luck.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by P_Adams &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It may cost more to have a shop perform the work, but if anything should go wrong, IT'S ON THEIR SHOULDERS, NOT YOURS - and you'd pay nothing additional because of their problem.
It's the wisdom of knowing what you (personally) can accomplish that makes for an enjoyable episode.

P</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've been putting that into perspective and i do like the fact of knowing that the shop will be responsible for anything that goes wrong.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BLKFLSH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Planning, Tools, and knowing your limits. Think about these things, before you start. But most of all SAFETY IS JOB ONE!!!! Maybe wait another week, and think about it, and do some more planning (get some help) if you want to do it yourself. Good Luck. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i would love the experience and i really dont have to prove to myself that i can do the job, i almost know i can. i know what goes where and how it works, just not the tools, help, etc. as you say. thanks guys you've been a big help. I'm currently trying to get more quotes from different shops. It just takes some convincing to some of these shop managers that everything is bolt on. many of the shops around here want to deal with OEM repairs and not have anything to do with aftermarket. I have to explain to them that the only thing that is different from an oem repair is the camber kits really. i appreciate your advice.

 

Dude we find it disturbing when Honda charges $95/hr for labor rates.....enough said......... People are getting greedy these days and the dealers are no exception to this rule.

 

Work in a small business man, you'll understand.

 

hmm... my place charges 100/hr labor rates and I get a big whopping 12/hr! Big profits for the companies.

 

Yeah, but when you consider how many others in your shop are eating at that same $100.00/hour payroll trough, you have to wonder how it happens every week.
The parts runners, the girl in the office, the guy ordering the parts, the courtesy car driver and last but not least the guy who's name is on the building all get paid out of that same $100.00; and they contribute nothing in the way of income because they represent administrative expense.
Not only that, but Property taxes, Utilities, equipment repairs, licensing and benefits all come out of it too.
By any standard $100.00/hour is expensive, but it has to be compared against the cost of living AND the cost of doing business.
Hey, go into business for yourself and try to support several employees. You won't believe how hard it is to make payroll, just based on employment taxes, and benefits.

P

 

chestnut_55 install the shocks and springs and sway bars yourself it wont hurt to safe a few bucks
and get spring compressors from your local autozone there free to rent To losen the springs from the tension. i would also get air compresor tools If you can will make it so much easier. I helped a friend out on a 02 maxima on all suspension we did it under 5 hrs two people. YOu can do it !!

 

many good points are made in this thread so far from P_Adams and such. and i personally think this thread is good, even though it has deviated from its original question. it brings to light the quandry of paying technicians enough money for their services (which i don't think they get), the dealerships having to allocated expenes to each job to cover "administrative" expenses, and the costs of running a business. as a consumer, friend to numerous technicians, parts counter guys, independent shop owners, and shadetree mechanic, i can say it is complicated.

from a safety and non-worry completeness standpoint, yes, it good to have a dealer or shop do the work for you. they are then responsible for anything that happens related to their labor, but be warned, it will not be easy to get them to ante up should something happen. it's like fighting an insurance company sometimes. smaller shops and tuner (sorry, no other word i can think of) garages tend to have better service, charge less than the dealer and still provide you with that safety/security net while being easier to deal with. and you may even make some friends in the long run.

in the end, the choice is up to you, but understanding why the costs are so high and what you want out of the situation are vital to your decision. it's good to get dirty and do some work yourself. but like they say here in my office: "if you cannot do it safely, don't do it at all". sorry to deviate from your original question, but i hope i have brought it back so that you can understand.