I am currently tuned via Neptune. I see the big boys running these crazy EMS's (Motec, Autronic, AEM EMS, ect) that stage their cars and they build boost while they are at the line. I know that Neptune can support it, but my car does not do it now. What do I have to do so that I can use this feature? Do I need to get a retune or is that something that Jeff Evans (my tuner) can do on his end and I can just burn the chip at my location?

Also what does this do to the motor? Is it harmful? What are the affects of this feature IE: does it yield high EGT's, high/low AFR #'s?????

Thanks for the help.

 

I believe how it works where you can actually build a lot of boost is retard the timing A LOT. Obviously, you're going to run wayyyyy rich during the 'staging', but that's how it works. Not the best for the turbo if I remember correctly.

 

i believe that you will build boost while on the two step. but i am not sure. a friend of mine had a single that would build 21psi while staging cause of his two step. he said it would do it cause you are holding the butterfly wide open allowing the turbo to do its thing

 

yes its two step
talk to jeff evans...
neptune has a threshold setup, where you hold the rpms to where you want it to be, then floor it and it will build boost

im pretty sure what it does is, it performs an ignition cut at the desired rpm level

 

at wide open throttle itll hit a rev limit to allow it to build boost...

the way people get so much boost is they retard the ignition timing and add fuel

by retarding the timing and adding fuel you ignite the mixture when its already on its way out of the cylinders...this causes the mix to continue burning in the manifold and turbo to spin the turbo...

No its not good for the turbo and it raises the egts alot........

 

i that is was anti lag ?

it is something he can do where he is at, burn you a chip and send it to you..

it is better if he can be there while you both fine tune it.

while your at it, have him mess with your gear based timing retard.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D@nnY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
by retarding the timing and adding fuel you ignite the mixture when its already on its way out of the cylinders...this causes the mix to continue burning in the manifold and turbo to spin the turbo...

No its not good for the turbo and it raises the egts alot........ </TD></TR></TABLE>

^^^^^this is how it works.

its perfect if you have a big turbo and want to build boost on the line.
i love mine.

 

So why is it that bad for the turbo? Is it solely because of the high EGT's?

Thanks for the good info guys!

 

I know how to do the current 2-step that I have.... hold RPM's @ desired setpoint then mash the gas.... the thing is that the RPM's bounce slow. I want it faster and I want to build boost on the line.

 

Quoted from Jeff Evans

"All you have to do is send me your neptune eeprom chip, or ecu with the eeprom in it. I can update you to the newest neptune software that builds boost with the 2 step. Depending on the size turbo, i have seen 10-15psi with the new anti-lag feature. It doesnt harm the engine, its tough on the turbine wheel since the combustion event occurs much later. I have yet to see a turbo ruined from using a anti-lag two step though."

I think that this is what I will do. It is not like I will be doing this every day so I am not too worried about the turbo.

 

i run the 2-step option on my Uberdata setup. It is set at 5500rpm, bounces between 5500-5650, great for launching at the track for consistant 60 foot times, and i also build about 5 psi of boost with the boost controller set at 10psi, with the 2-step set up i took off about .3 from my 60 foot from having more boost readily available and also not waiting for boost as much, only thing is that for street tires its not too smart to use, i.e. spin

 

msd 2 step is the way to go i can build 14psi of boost at 3000rpms with a t3/t67ho

but with the neptune i can build like 2-7psi

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vaporboy12 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">msd 2 step is the way to go i can build 14psi of boost at 3000rpms with a t3/t67ho

but with the neptune i can build like 2-7psi </TD></TR></TABLE>

step isnt only part of what helps the turbo spool.

anti lag is where its at.

i was building 21 psi on my greddy kit

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by llewsirc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

step isnt only part of what helps the turbo spool.

anti lag is where its at.

i was building 21 psi on my greddy kit </TD></TR></TABLE>

What are you using for anti-lag? Neptune?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tepid1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What are you using for anti-lag? Neptune?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes
neptune has a antilag feature.

im sure jeff can do it without you there,
i just think it is better to fine tune it.

it only took us ~ 10 mins to fine tune my anti lag.

 

I think there is some confusion in this post here. There are to two types of launch control we are talking about here.

The first is called 2-step: For most EMS's a button is depressed or a mph cut (ie. you have to be at a certin MPH for it to shutoff) is activated. This allows the engine to free rev to the "2nd" rev limit which is the launching limit. either Fuel or ignition is cutoff and the revs will bounce off this limit. If you build boost then it's because you have a small turbo, but most large turbos won't see much boost being built up. This is not harmful to the engine nor turbo.

The second is called anti-lag: This is found in Neptune and most full standalone EMSs (not Hondata s200/Uberdata/Crome etc.). This is also activated by a switch or MPH or any other method to start the antilag. When activated and at WOT a new set of maps are used and along with a LOT of fuel the gnition is retarded to 0 or even in the negative for some cars. The burn will be in the manifold and cause heat IN THE Manifold and not so much the cylinder. If done incorrectly, though, people burn exhaust valves. So yes technically yes EGT's go up, but it has nothing to do with what's happening inside the cylinder walls. Although the engine for the most part is not effected aside from heat build up, the turbo will see all the heat to the turbine wheel and is violently pushed forward. So, yes the turbo is going through stress.


Personally I think anti-lag isn't necessary on most FWD cars since we have traction issues in lower gears anyway. All rally cars use this and have is active when the throttle is not used so the turbo is virtually ALWAYS spooled (if you listen carefully you can hear it ). They also use ceramic wheels that can stand the heat, but in excahnge for not having good tensile strength (fast spinning turbo)

Hope I cleared things up...haha

 

^^^^ yes that does clear things up a lot.

So it is the Anti-lag that I am looking for. I already have the two-step, but don't build really any boost due to the slow RPM bounces.

 

adseguy- great post

tepid1- get jeff to add alittle anti lag in there for you

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by llewsirc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">adseguy- great post

tepid1- get jeff to add alittle anti lag in there for you
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Already working on it. Thanks for helping.

This is rare that we see a thread here on H-T that doesn't bash anyone.... hmmmm