I liked the feel a lot more when I took the belt off. However, I don't want to end up replacing the seals for the unit so I am thinking about getting a manual steering rack.

Who has done this, what do you think, what are your opinions?

<FONT COLOR="red">Side note:</FONT> To bad there are too many idiots here and Free polls get filled up with crap.

 

I went the whole hog and replaced my power rack with a manual one (del Sol Si to del Sol S conversion). Very simple, saved some weight and frees up some power. I had my old 17's on back then, and it was hard to parallel park. Now I have my lightweight 16's and its back to one-handed turns at almost any speed. Steering response is WAYYYYYY better, especially at highway speeds. Much easier to control the car and know exactly what's going on at the front wheels. Some have said (no one else has driven my car) that the del Sol S rack is too slow, but I haven't had any problems as yet (though I haven't competed).

Would I recommend it? For sure. I commute 200 miles a day in my car and I love it.

Steve

 

I had both. I put it on my car when I added my LS motor. I removed it when I put in my GSR motor. I have a 93 Civic cx I like the feel of the manual rack better. Its on hard to steer if your tires are worn or if you are running slicks.

 

you can lock the choices you know......I did it for you this time.

right now I am running a power steering rack w/ out the belt (it's on back order)
it sucks ***....I can't wait to get the belt back on.

 

i went from ps to manual steering..and hoenstly, after the few initial turns they feel the same. the only time u miss ps is when u r parallel parking.

 

I had a '92 DX Hatch with no p/s, and I found the steering to be way too slow for my tastes. I had actually contemplated getting a faster rack but then traded the car on my del Sol VTEC.

I'd experimented with taking the p/s belt off of the del Sol during the course of its suspension modifications, and had mixed results. Bone stock with stock alignment and the belt on, the car was way too twitchy. Taking the belt off, it didn't feel quite so twitchy, and "feel" was definately improved. Effort at parking lot speeds was increased of course, but then I found that over the road, negotiating curves, it felt like I was constantly fighting what I felt was a self-centering action, requiring even more concentration to hold my line. When I put the springs, shocks and swaybars on it, and the 15" wheels & tires, the car was more stable, but this effect in the steering was amplified. I didn't like it.

I put the belt back on it and found that it didn't seem to have as much numbness and lack of on-center feel it once had. In fact, it was amazingly more stable and drivable on the open road. I attributed this to the extra turning effort the wider, stickier tires were requiring, but I think the lowering of the vehicle brought aerodynamic forces (less lift, hence more stability) into play at speed also. I was pretty happy with the p/s then.

After I put the 16"s on it, the steering effort increased just enough to where it seemed perfect. I also did the washer trick to bring the rear a lot closer to stock camber, and got the car aligned again. I can say I'm VERY happy with the way the car feels at the wheel. The car is extremely stable no matter the speed, the steering effort is light, but not too light. I'm keeping the p/s on this car. BTW, this is a street oriented vehicle. If I were drag racing, I'd at least take the belt off for the extra HP.

When I bought my '92 Civic Si, I had to replace the rack due to the previous owner's neglect of the air bellows (torn, and water got past them into the rack). When I put another rack on it, with stock suspension, wheels and stock-sized tires, the p/s was ridiculous. Very numb, way too much assist. I remove all of the p/s save for the rack itself, and built a loop from the fluid output port to the input port to keep fluid circulating in the rack (so the seals are ok). The Si's currently not anywhere near the del Sol VTEC in terms of feel, but its much better than it was when it was stock, IMO.

 

Yeah goober, I did lock it I wanted to keep it free so that others could post different answers/suggestions that I didn't have to think of but.....I just spent more time thinking and locked it

N-E-Way, I am adding a manual rack to the future mods list on the HX and maybe even the EX.

 

wrong forum, i know... i've just taken the belt off in my integra se/ls... what would swapping racks do for me? I've swapped in a b16a2 and didn't even bother putting the ps pump in. what should i do? i have a 12v heavy duty water pump i thought about wiring up and hiding somewhere to help lubricate the rack if it needed it, but I don't know much about ps. can anyone help? thanks

 

I put a 92 CX rack in my ITR.

Nice mod. I don't like p/s anyway. All my cars have always been manual.

 

No need for an external pump.

Fabricate a line from the output port of the rack to the input port of the rack. Its not difficult to do this. I used a fitting from a NAPA store and some of the original tubing and hose from the system to build mine.

Whenever you turn the steering wheel, the fluid left in the rack (make sure you've put enough in the in port that it starts coming out the out port) will circulate. There's virtually no effort in pushing that small amount of fluid through the system, and it keeps the rack lubed.

It's my opinion that running a ps rack without fluid will eventually cause a problem. However, I've no evidence to back up that opinion (I've never seen one go bad for lack of fluid). I do find it probable though that seals designed and constructed to be used in a bath of a fluid, will eventually dry out, shrink, crack or otherwise deteriorate until they are no longer as functional as they should be.

 

it's kindda koo wat wakaru said. i was thinking the same thing b4 i read what he said. but does it REALLY work though? has any2 else done that? and how long has it been working

 

I actually did just that. I used the "looped" piece of hose that was close to the radiator on the driver's side. get all the fluid out before sealing the system. do this by turning the wheel all the way left and right over and over and over again. good luck. it's pretty easy to do. F PS!

 

i had a 99 civic dx hatchback, it had p/s and it was an automatic (dont say anything just read on). so i sold it and bought another civic hatchback cx without p/s and a 5 speed. i love not haveing p/s, i even have 17 and at first it was hard but after your muscles get used to it it is easy and i dont ever realize it. the only problem is when you are stopped but really you get used to it. no p/s is sooo much better you can really feel the difference in handleing. i say do it, take the peice out.

 

From personal experience, I can tell you that if there is fluid in the rack, moving the rack inside its housing (turning the steering wheel) in either direction will eject fluid out of the rack through the exit port. A Helm's manual on the '92 Civic, section 17-31 to be exact, will also confirm fluid movement relative to rack movement. You just have to take into account when you look at how it works that you do not have a high-pressure pump moving fluid around. The only things moving fluid are the rack pistons. Mine's been working for about six months now.

 

ok, i think i'm gonna be doing the tubing looping thingy forsure but i'm a lil confussed. Do u cap it off when there's fluid inside the rack or do u drain it all out and then cap it? aren't u suppose to have fluid in there for lube? uh, help?

 

i just removed the pump and drained the rack then capped off the plugs. done.

the fluid residue left in side will keep things slick and thats all i ask.


[Modified by 95CivicSi, 12:03 AM 3/19/2002]

 

When I did this, I emptied the rack of all fluid (while it was still on the workbench), by moving the tie rods back and forth until no more fluid was coming out of the "out" hole. I then started filling the rack with fresh fluid with a plastic squeeze bottle with a pointy cap, again moving the tie rods back and forth until new fluid started coming out of the "out" hole. I put my fittings on, put one end of the u-shaped rubber hose on the "in" fitting, and put a clamp on it. I put a clamp on the other end but farther up the hose in preparation for putting it on. I then filled the hose up with new fluid. I quickly put the other hose end on my "out" fitting, minimizing fluid loss within the system, and moved the clamp down the hose until it was clamping around the fitting.

On my rack, there is a third, smaller "out" hole, that allowed fluid to circulate through the rack all the time under pump pressure. I used the existing tube fitting for that hole, cut off the tube a bit, filled the end with JB weld, and crimped it shut.

I would imagine that doing all this would be more difficult with the rack in the car. Not so difficult that I wouldn't have done it, but its pretty tight up in there. Since I was replacing the old rack anyway, I didn't have that problem. I just did it to the newer rack before I put it in.

Since I haven't run the rack without any fluid, I can't attest to whether that method works or not. Obviously, other's have done this with no reported problems. I did it the way I did because it seemed the right way to do it, based upon what I read in my Helms manual regarding fluid flow in the system.

I'll try and post a pic or two later today.

 

when did they stop making cars with manual steering? or do they still make them?

 

Although that statement is correct in an of itself, that situation does not have to exist if you remove the pump, lines and nearly all of the fluid from the equation.

I used a manual rack '92 DX HB for 96k miles, and I am currently using a ps rack (with the above modifications) in a '92 Si HB for the past six months. Which one is actually "better" may simply be a preference, but I like the quicker steering ratio of my modified ps rack over the manual rack. Even though my Si is heavier, and has wider, stickier tires, I do not find enough of an increase in the steering effort to merit wishing for the manual rack again. If I were of slighter build and had less upper-body strength, I might well feel differently about it though!

Of course, in cases that are of a subjective nature, to each his own.

 

sounds easy enuff, i think i'm gonna do it this weekend. The car is motorless right now and the rack is jus there. should take advantage while there's no motor in the car. wat type of fluid do i use though? jus ps fluiding? or should i try motor oil? hehe. and how'd u make the tube? i have a dc teg and the outlet tube is smaller than the inlet tube

 

I used Honda power steering fluid (my other cars have ps). I made the inlet tube from one of the pieces of existing tubing. I cut the tubing to a short length, and one end was already flared to accept hose. I flared the other end (the cut end) to fit in the inlet itself. The outlet was a NAPA fitting that was threaded on one end, and barbed on the other. The two fittings ended up being different lengths. The hose was a piece of the existing hose, that was making a 180 degree turn. I cut the hose off longer on one end than the other to compensate for the different fitting lengths. The NAPA fitting doesn't fit exactly as tight as the Honda fitting did, but teflon tape took up the very minimal slack. I used a couple of the existing wire hose clamps to secure the hose.

Your Integra ps box and my Si ps box are different, so I can't vouch that the fittings, or even the existing ps pieces are going to be appropriate for your application. If it would help, I'll try and post a pic of my setup for you.

 

Hey MugenGTR... I am in the same exact situation as yourself... DC2 sitting w/o the engine... I cut the metal tubing off the fitting that screwed into the rack and put a piece of tubing over it once i tightened it back in place. I put the other end of tubing onto the other place where the hose was... used the hose clamps that screw on.... can't complain yet. btw, i did this with NO fluid in the rack.... as i figured more fluid = harder steering... good luck

 

how weird, two people w/ dc teg w/ no engines taking out ps. except i'm doing mines this friday and i'm gonna keep fluid in the rack. let's see who's gonna last longer, haha (i bet this competition will never end!). my friend borrowed my grinder (gonna use that to cut the metal pipe) so gotta get that back. so, u wouldn't also happen to be taking out your a/c too now would u? hehe

 

Anyone want a manual steering rack off my 96 Civic DX?