I'm currently running a 1995 VW GTi with the VR6 motor and have it chipped and a NX wet 75 shot that i have not yet sprayed in this car. the chips advances the timing and generally nitrous+advanced timing is not a good idea(why i havnt sprayed it yet). im wondering if i were to run a high octance race fuel if the possibility of detonation would be eliminated. will this be safe or should i stick to the stock chip when it comes time to spray? thanks in advance for knowledgable responses

 

ttt

 

is no one responding because i have 62 posts? i know someone around here knows about advanced timing and nitrous

 

Run the stock chip. There is no reason for guesswork and advanced timing etc.

 

thats the whole reason im posting, so it's not guesswork...

 

Well, running some "chip" is always guesswork.

Advanced timing + N2O = not a good idea in general.

Why run race fuel all time time, when you don't need it? Do yo have a big tanker full of race fuel that you are dying to use? hehe.

 

maybe for a honda it is, but giac chips are well known and reputable, the specs are known.
i understand advanced timing and nitrous is not a good idea, on pump gas, that is obvious.
i dont want to run race gas all the time, neither do i want to spray all the time, that is for the track
do you have experience with nitrous setups?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gtistile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm currently running a 1995 VW GTi with the VR6 motor and have it chipped </TD></TR></TABLE>

No one can give you sound advice if they don't know how much timing the chip advances over stock.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gtistile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> but giac chips are well known and reputable, the specs are known. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Why are you asking us then? The specs are known right? Why would a bunch of honda owners know the specs on a VR6 chip?

Dustin gave sound advice. In almost any N2O application the timing is retarded not advanced and extra power is made with more N2O and fuel and not from timing. Tuning a Nitrous powered car with advanced timing would be difficult and not for an amateur.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No one can give you sound advice if they don't know how much timing the chip advances over stock.

Why are you asking us then? The specs are known right? Why would a bunch of honda owners know the specs on a VR6 chip?

Dustin gave sound advice. In almost any N2O application the timing is retarded not advanced and extra power is made with more N2O and fuel and not from timing. Tuning a Nitrous powered car with advanced timing would be difficult and not for an amateur. </TD></TR></TABLE>
#1 i agree, im finding out for sure what the advance is

#2 kinda repeats itself...i wasnt expecting anyone in here to know the specs of the chip, rather to help with with timing questions, since a VR6 and honda motors combust fuel in the exact same way.

#3 i dont feel that dustin gave anything other than what the manufacture of the nitrous kit says, or anything ive already read 100 times before. i still feel my situation is slightly different than that of the average joe slapping nitrous on his car for the first time on a chipped car and wanting to run pump gas.

tommorow i am talking to a guy at the local motorcycle shop that is hands down the best tuner ive ever met. he has a degree in rocket science and has done things with bikes that are unheard of(500+whp ZX-12, first ever supercharged Z1000 to name a couple). apparently has knowledge of the VR6 as well. not only will he be able explain physically what is happening and really the WHY of why it will or will not work, but the chemical reasoning behind it as well. tommorow night i WILL be far more knowledgable on this subject and will answer my own question in this thread with 100% accurate information...if anyone happened to browse through this thread seeking possible information, check back tommorow evening and i will have posted again.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gtistile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i still feel my situation is slightly different than that of the average joe slapping nitrous on his car for the first time on a chipped car and wanting to run pump gas. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Why do you want to leave the timing advanced?

 

plugs will tell all.just retard the timing all the way and spray.....then look at your plugs..."they do not lie about whats going on"....then keep advancing till you see little black specs then back the timing off a hair....and then go have some fun.


75 shot is nothing to panic over....you can also play w/fuel pressure.


i spray a b20 vtec w/gsr head.....using the plate system.i spray 225.but i also run another inline pump tee'd at the rail.i only turn it on when i am going to spray.like i said .


TIMING

FUEL

are your best friends when using nitrious.

harv

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Why do you want to leave the timing advanced?</TD></TR></TABLE>
please read the thread

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1700anddroping &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">plugs will tell all.just retard the timing all the way and spray.....then look at your plugs..."they do not lie about whats going on"....then keep advancing till you see little black specs then back the timing off a hair....and then go have some fun.


75 shot is nothing to panic over....you can also play w/fuel pressure.


i spray a b20 vtec w/gsr head.....using the plate system.i spray 225.but i also run another inline pump tee'd at the rail.i only turn it on when i am going to spray.like i said .


TIMING

FUEL

are your best friends when using nitrious.

harv</TD></TR></TABLE>
that would be the most obvious solution, unfortunatly the only way to change the timing is via the computer, as there is no adjustable distributor on the post 94 VR6's. our ECU are also not tunable like a honda's, basically we can plug and play, not adjust. good looks though

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gtistile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">please read the thread</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have several times and you have yet to explain why you insist upon keeping the timing advanced outside of the fact that I am supposed to infer that you don't want to get rid of your chipped ecu.

 

well there is only one way to fix it then...stand alone.if you cain't adjust your timing ,that is your only other option.but you could get another ecu.i play w/the spray alot....and i serious think beyound a shadow of a doubt you will be fine w/a 75 shot w/the timing the way it is.i doubt it is advanced that much or you would spark knock.


harv

 

The reason you retard timing with a nitrous engine is because nitrous accelerates the flame speed.

If you keep the stock timing or add timing through a chip this will create maximum cylinder pressure before TDC and will try to push the piston down the bore when its traveling up towards TDC.

 

but you do not ALWAYS have to take out alot of timing FUEL IS YOUR friend....


but very good explanation tho...


harv

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gtistile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
#3 i dont feel that dustin gave anything other than what the manufacture of the nitrous kit says, or anything ive already read 100 times before. i still feel my situation is slightly different than that of the average joe slapping nitrous on his car for the first time on a chipped car and wanting to run pump gas.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Don't come asking for help if you don't want to hear that what you want to do is a poor idea. If you want to do it, go ahead and do it anyways. It's your motor, and I really couldn't care less if it blows up.

But, when you add more fuel and oxygen to the burn (nitrous), its density increased, hence the burn happens faster (denser charge = burns faster).

This is why you retard timing with boost/extra boost, and this is why you retard timing with nitrous. You don't need to retard timing as much as you would with a turbo setup, because N20 cools the intake charge relatively well. But you *do* need to start the burn later, or you are going to hit peak cyl pressure earlier than you want, which is bad.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
tommorow i am talking to a guy at the local motorcycle shop that is hands down the best tuner ive ever met. he has a degree in rocket science and has done things with bikes that are unheard of(500+whp ZX-12, first ever supercharged Z1000 to name a couple). apparently has knowledge of the VR6 as well.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

My dad is santa.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
not only will he be able explain physically what is happening and really the WHY of why it will or will not work, but the chemical reasoning behind it as well. tommorow night i WILL be far more knowledgable on this subject and will answer my own question in this thread with 100% accurate information...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Awesome! I eagerly await your response. It's very rare to know that you have 100% accurate information, especially when you really don't know what you are talking about... so you wouldn't know if he was telling you misinformation anyways.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
if anyone happened to browse through this thread seeking possible information, check back tommorow evening and i will have posted again. </TD></TR></TABLE>

woot.

On a side note, you do understand that ignition timing is not a power adder, right?

At a given RPM and Load, X degrees of ignition advance is going to make peak torque. X+2 degrees of timing is going to make *less* torque. So what's the point anyways? You don't seem particularly interested in doing things the right way (dyno), so I guess it doesn't matter.

Race fuel has higher octane (more knock resistance), which means it burns slower and is less likely to preignite. So even if you run race fuel, and N2O, and your magic chip (here we assume that this magic chip is perfectly tuned to your car... but I guarantee the chip is useless), you are going to make the same power as if you ran pump gas, N20, and the stock chip. Race fuel doesn't make your car faster, and if you run race fuel on an engine tuned for pump fuel, the car will be *slower*.

Oh yeah, you're welcome.

 

were you planning on adding anything useful? please stop posting useless information...you continue to talk without saying a damn thing

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gtistile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">were you planning on adding anything useful? please stop posting useless information...you continue to talk without saying a damn thing </TD></TR></TABLE>

lol....

You know that Dustin just gave you exact specifics of the reasons why you don't want to leave your timing advanced, right?

Do you realize that you are telling the administrator of this website to stop posting on his own web-forum?

You are either a troll or an idiot sir.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

lol....

You know that Dustin just gave you exact specifics of the reasons why you don't want to leave your timing advanced, right?

Do you realize that you are telling the administrator of this website to stop posting on his own web-forum?

You are either a troll or an idiot sir.</TD></TR></TABLE>

DAMN! That **** is whack!! lol ...ouch

 

Back on topic a bit...... To answer your question, YES. If you run a high octane race fuel you can get away with more timing while on the bottle. Especially with a little tickle of nitrous like a 75 shot. Something like VP C-10 would do nicely as far as fuels go.

And as stated earlier in this thread, keep an eye on your spark plugs. Throw a fresh set in your engine (a couple ranges colder btw) and make a nitrous pass, and then check your plugs. But even more importantly than checking your plugs is LEARN HOW TO READ YOUR PLUGS. Do your research and you will be fine (you migh do some reading on a few domestic boards for your plug reading info, they tend to have to spend a lot more time reading plugs). Good Luck!

 

yo dude GIAC sells a dual chip for n2o and "chipped mode" so you can switch it back to the non-chipped setting. You will guaranteed pop that motor by spraying with an aftermarket chip. Keep it stock, or look into the dual chip service.

 

the plan is to run c16 to be safest, starting with the stock chip, recording the trap speed, then popping in the aftermarket chip, running again and looking for gains. if it's faster it should be fine, if it's slower it will surely pop if i continue to spray on it. of course i will be watching the plugs like a hawk and monitering everything possible. now i just need to get my job to pay me when they're supposed to and fill the bottle up