Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000) EG/EH/EJ/EK/EM1 Discussion

96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 06:37 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Originally Posted by Ohmega
Its a 1996 del Sol Si, so stock ecu is OBD2 p28. be back in 10 minutes.
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 06:54 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Originally Posted by RonJ
I was running the stock p28 basemap preloaded on the s300.

Swapped the chipped for stock. No surging idle. Drives smoother as well. STFT and LTFT under %.8.

After throttle, idle hovers, then settles at ~750
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 06:58 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

There ya go. The chipped ECU is clearly the issue. Sounds like some proper tuning of the chipped ECU is in order.

Still no CEL I assume.
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 07:04 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Originally Posted by RonJ
There ya go. The chipped ECU is clearly the issue. Sounds like some proper tuning of the chipped ECU is in order.

Still no CEL I assume.
No cel. I know something is amiss. I don't like how my idle roams before it settles to spec.
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 07:06 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Originally Posted by Ohmega
No cel. I know something is amiss. I don't like how my idle roams before it settles to spec.
Post a video of the tach behaviour. But you're clearly moving in the right direction and close to normal now.
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 07:31 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 07:35 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

I think that can be fixed by performing the proper idle adjustment for the stock ECU. Do you have the 96 Del Sol service manual?
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 07:37 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

I have 96-98 civic service manual. I can't find a pdf of a USDM del sol specific service manual
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 07:41 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Do you have an OBD2 code reader that also reports live data such as engine rpms?

If so, follow this procedure:




In step 5, keep turning the idle screw to the lowest idle speed where it will still hold the spec idle speed. Does that make sense?
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 07:43 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Yes, I can monitor my rpm. Give me 10.
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 07:45 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Originally Posted by Ohmega
Yes, I can monitor my rpm. Give me 10.
Please read the last sentence I wrote in the last post.

Do you have a timing gun?
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 08:02 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Originally Posted by RonJ
Please read the last sentence I wrote in the last post.

Do you have a timing gun?
I do not understand the sentence. No timing gun at this moment. I will have one tomorrow at 10 am.
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 08:06 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Originally Posted by Ohmega
I do not understand the sentence.
There's usually a range of idle screw turn positions that will yield the spec base idle speed of 450 rpm. In step 5, keep turning the screw in the direction that reduces the idle speed just until the engine can still hold at 450 rpm. Make sense now?
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 08:09 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Originally Posted by RonJ
There's usually a range of idle screw turn positions that will yield the spec base idle speed of 450 rpm. In step 5, keep turning the screw in the direction that reduces the idle speed just until the engine can still hold at 450 rpm. Make sense now?
Understood. I cannot achieve an idle of 450 with the idle screw completely bottomed out.

I took notes during the idle procedure:
Step 5. No load idle speec- 680
Step 8. After ecu reset + 1 minute wait-780
Step 9. Headlights only- 885
Step 10. Heater on HI ac on-810
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 08:13 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Originally Posted by Ohmega
Understood. I cannot achieve an idle of 450 with the idle screw completely bottomed out.
With the IACV unplugged?
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 08:13 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Originally Posted by RonJ
With the IACV unplugged?
Yes, the IACV was unplugged.
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 08:15 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

How close to 450 rpm do you get?
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 08:16 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Originally Posted by RonJ
How close to 450 rpm do you get?
680 rpm.
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 08:21 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Originally Posted by Ohmega
680 rpm.
Is the throttle cable adjusted properly with some slack?

Has anybody ever messed with the throttle stop screw?

With the IACV unplugged, can you lower the 680 rpm base idle speed to 450 rpm by covering the hole leading to the IACV inside the TB?

Is the stock ECU still installed?
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 08:26 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Originally Posted by RonJ
Is the throttle cable adjusted properly with some slack?

Has anybody ever messed with the throttle stop screw?

With the IACV unplugged, can you lower the 680 rpm base idle speed to 450 rpm by covering the hole leading to the IACV inside the TB?

Is the stock ECU still installed?
Throttle cable has appropriate slack.
Throttle stop screw has unbroken yellow marker line. No tampering evident.
Covering the iacv hole results in the engine dying.
Stock ecu (obd2 p28) still installed
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 08:30 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Originally Posted by Ohmega
Covering the iacv hole results in the engine dying.
The unplugged IACV is bypassing too much air to the IM. Have you cleaned the IACV?

Stock ecu (obd2 p28) still installed
Good. Leave it installed until the problem is pinpointed.
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 08:33 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Originally Posted by RonJ
The unplugged IACV is bypassing too much air to the IM. Have you cleaned the IACV?



Good. Leave it installed until the problem is pinpointed.
It's actually an aftermarket iacv. I replaced it awhile ago being naive. Have not cleaned it.
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 08:37 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Originally Posted by Ohmega
It's actually an aftermarket iacv. I replaced it awhile ago being naive. Have not cleaned it.
Try thoroughly cleaning the aftermarket IACV with brake cleaner. If the high base idle problem persists, scout junkyards for 96-98 Civic 2-wire IACVs. I assume they'll be the same as your original stock one for the 96 Del Sol.
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 08:41 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

Originally Posted by RonJ
Try thoroughly cleaning the aftermarket IACV with brake cleaner. If the high base idle problem persists, scout junkyards for 96-98 Civic 2-wire IACVs. I assume they'll will be the same as your original stock one for the 96 Del Sol.
I'll have to post results tomorrow, I do not have any brake cleaner on hand. I was planning on heading to the junkyard for an oil pan and valve cover anyway, I'll keep an eye out.
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Old Mar 18, 2016 | 08:45 PM
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Default Re: 96' del Sol SI: Engine surge off load (Scan tool data, pics, video)

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