bruzanHD

iTrader: (1)

For all of you who have built multiple cars, (for any event/class) which ones have been your favourite? which ones have you built and why did you enjoy driving or looking at one more than the other? Which would you like to try building in the future?

Josh R.

I've had a few Hondas (D, K and B series), a couple Subarus and one Dodge Neon ACR (basically an American Civic, really). I'm pretty in love with the Integra. I don't think I'll ever spend the money to make it exactly what I want though. Some type of Formula car is next for me I think.

bruzanHD

iTrader: (1)

sjg88

for 99% of us i dont think there is a difference between the shells..em1/ej2 vs ek hatch vs DC2 vs sedan...the motor and suspension setup make more of a difference but the ek hatch is the lightest..

for someone getting into the "game" so to speak...the availability in your local region will have to factor in unless you're willing to travel to get what you want (i live in NJ but bought my car in GA) and will never buy another car from the northeast

i like my integra but if i had to get another car id prob go with the em1 due to the fact it already has the b16 installed.

bruzanHD

iTrader: (1)

Josh R.

That's hard to quantify. I don't really care at the end of the day what it looks like, but I do happen to really like the way it looks. So it's mostly based on performance, ease of working on it/availablity of quality parts, and styling/"fanboys".

Kaan

iTrader: (3)

I've had a CRX, Integra, and now the EM1... the trick is seeing all these cars age.

I think the EF chassis is a great autox platform but has not aged well. There was a span where getting hubs/spindles/bearings was tricky... but now they have GOOD (karcepts) aftermarket support. but there are a lot of parts on them you have to rebuild OEM or suffer with poorly made aftermarket parts because Honda isn't supporting a 30 year old car.

The Integra (and EG hatch really) is slowly going the way of the EF chassis as far as Honda support... BUT it shares so many parts with the EG that used parts are out there. The suspension is "classic" double wishbone and there is a ton of data out there on what to do to make these cars fast, predictable, and consistent. The Integra is longer than the EF and the same length as the EM1/EK... they are better suitable for road courses but can be setup to autox fairly easily. The non R and Type R rear arms can help get you to drivers preference for handling. The shorter rear lower arms means there is less leverage on the sub frame. The cars are essentially B native from the start... it doesn't take much to swap a B motor into the EG and the integra is the B native car.

EM1/EK... very similar to the Integra/EG with two noticeable differences... the front upper control arms are different and the rear lower control arms are longer. Lets start with the rear... the longer arm means you'll most likely need to run 50-100lbs more weight in the back to make it "feel" like the integra. it will also cause more stress on the subframe... which can be an issue even with a subframe brace in race applications (I know, I had to repair mine and will be replacing it this winter). My car is a little different, as I have a DC/EG front sub frame and lower control arm setup... it saves weight. the stock EK/EM1 subframe is about 40lbs heavier. this allows me to run all EG/DC spindles and lower control arms parts. the front upper control arm mounts from the sides and not from the top like the DC2/EG. my rough thoughts are it will allow for less flex on the aging chassis as the pivot point is directly on the chassis. the DC would have "leverage" to pull on the top of the shock tower. that being said, there is less room for motion on the EK/EM1 for the suspension to travel before it makes contact with the chassis compared to the DC/EG... but they all will do it when you are "too low."

apples to oranges... my integra was easy to overdrive and feel fast. my EM1 is faster but requires less error in driving to get there. these two cars are completely different outside the engine/transmission I used/carried over. It took me one event in my EM1 to get used to it, so its hard to compare it to my integra that I did so many events in... but either "modern" double wishbone chassis will do very well.

sjg88

what parts have you come across that were difficult to source from honda? ive only purchased engine stuff for my dc2 but on another forum a fellow with a dc2 he was restoring said he had trouble getting window mouldings for the rear..

im assuming its just body parts you're talking about?

all the suspension stuff i had to buy was available on rockauto and id imagine the popularity of these chassis will keep it alive for quite sometime..

but ive heard this before and it does sort of concern me..but not enough to switch to bwm...yet

Kaan

iTrader: (3)

sure you can get almost anything off rock auto. but when I had my crx, MANY parts went on clearance/discontinued status on rock auto. its only a matter of time for the DC/EG.

for the track/race car the biggest "stock" items left on the car are spindles/hubs... then body parts. when they start drying up its hard to keep them on track on a budget.

bruzanHD

iTrader: (1)

sjg88

i mean, i understand where youre coming from and i had an ae86 and id never track one precisely for this reason (hard to get parts for it)

but the civic/integra was produced in MASS numbers and they are still popular to this day so it will be interesting to see if there are enough millenials who are hitting middle age who have money to spruce these things up

Ericjergs

If I'm remembering correctly, I believe you can swap the Integra pinion assembly into the ek power steering rack and have the same turning ratio as the Integra.

GR_DC2

I am an older millenial (34 years old) who is trying to rebuild a 00 integra. It's VERY expensive to do it right. Sure you can do it cheap if you don't care what type of parts you put on the car (since there are so many cheap/ebay options), but to do it right with OEM or better parts has been much costlier than expected. Things like OEM reman PS racks and reman axles aren't available anymore from the dealer, so you need to spend good money on quality aftermarket brands or roll the dice with autozone/O'reilly parts. Sure there are tons of parts on the used market but they are just as old, so it's really a gamble buying them. Because of this, I often find myself buying new as opposed to used in most cases.

S2k@9K

iTrader: (3)

It would actually be less. The Em1 rack has around a 3.3 LTL, not the 3.6 stated for the other 96-00 models.

Personally, I have always liked the interior/exterior styling of the 99-00 Si's and hatches the most and that's simply what I wanted to build. I started in a 99' Si and now moving all the parts over to a 99' hatch.

For a future build I would like another S2000 or some form of open wheel.

sjg88

well, im using an autozone axle on my dc2 track car and have not had any issues...also using a reman steering rack as well. rebuilt everything with moog suspension bits too...

Maybe its just inflation that we're all complaining about...

boxedfox

If you're talking about building a car for competition, I'd say that my favorite shell would be the one for a FG2 Civic Si. On paper it doesn't look like anything special, with its relatively high core weight and Macpherson strut front suspension. In practice the chassis is so well sorted that you can make a really fast track or AutoX car without spending much money at all. Right now they're in that sweet spot where it's new enough that parts are available and you'll be eligible for contingency-friendly classes, but old enough that the cars are cheap and plentiful.

Ericjergs

Very true, I've seen a couple unassuming looking FG2s absolutely kill it during Autocross.

Josh R.

I have to disagree here. It is more expensive to do it right than it used to be but compared to building something like an STi, Evo, FoST it's not bad at all. Take something simple like adjustable spherical endlinks....$80 for Integra, $120 for my WRX.

Yeah, I use the lifetime warranty Advance Auto axles. They suck, but I just keep trading them in for new ones! For the most part I steer clear of Moog stuff though.

Yeah...going back to a Macpherson car gives me the *******, but I keep thinking about going down this road. Too many newer Civics doing rad things to ignore (Pirelli World Challenge, Global Time Attack).

aw614

Also an older millennial too and I've been doing the same thing you have because of the gamble of buying older oem parts. Too many times I've been burned by shady sellers and I am just weary of buying aftermarket replacement parts. The dealer practically knows me for buying a ton of obscure integra parts brand new. In some cases, I struggled to find an OEM gsr power steering cooler to add to my DC4 chassis, I had to force myself to get the EG power steering cooler to fit. I would have loved to have bought that small piece brand new and every local honda seller in the florida area, the first thing they throw out are AC, PS, ABS

Acura/Honda actually has an OEM reman steering rack, it did cost me 500 dollars (+150 dollar core charge), you have to look at any 98-01 car on the website to order it but I got mine installed back in July.
https://www.typerclub.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=316

The one component I've been pondering upgrading to is the distributor to a Coil on Plug solution. There looks to be a cheaper alternative to the Hondata COP, I found here, but haven't seen many people run them in track settings.
https://www.facebook.com/BurtonRacing09/

My main reason for wanting to dump the OEM dizzyis the rotor screw backing out and the associated costs of maintaining the dizzy. I used locktite on my screw, a few months back, decided to open it up a couple weeks ago, and found it backout, it didn't completely come out, but was rather annoyed how it backed out. It seems cheaper in the longterm to pay the upfront costs of a COP conversion vs looking for OEM dizzys and their associated components.
Interesting observations between the DC and EK cars. I've been dailying an automatic Civic EX Coupe, and handling wise, I thought I could add a tiny EM1 Sway bar to get it to somewhat feel like a stock integra, and I noticed the same things you did about the rear, it still doesn't feel the same to me. I should be modding this car, but I am close to buying a subframe brace and sway bar just to get better turn in feel. It doesn't help I've sort of pondering looking for an EM1 shell.

boxedfox

Don't be afraid of the modern Honda Macpherson strut. Between subtle suspension geometry improvements, the chassis becoming stiffer, and a reduced reliance on bushing stiffness for alignment, they turned the last three generations of Civic into better handling platforms than the 90's double A arm Hondas we grew up with. And they get even better with stiffer suspension.