Yes, I did a search on recent topic and in the archived ones.

It seems that even in a few of those topics people were told to "do a search."

hehe, ok well I didn't find a thread on spring rates that answers this question for me:

Why such a discrepancy with the advice given? I realize people's driving style and preference (as well as the type of racing they do) affects this to a large degree...

Why such difference for say someone asking about an integra and wondering what rates to use for track or autox? I've seen anywhere from 600f/ 400r to 350f/ 450r to 400f/ 600r and anywhere in between. Is this due to tire choice, compound, or different widths f-r?

Now I'm very happy with the stock suspension. I'm very worried about changing to an aftermarket kit in search of performance and then getting little (if any) favorable results.

It seems that many of you here are happy with your setups. Off the shelf kits don't seem to mimic much of the advice here in the archives )with equal or higher rates in the rear)...

I haven't had the opportunity to ride with many people who actually know what their rates are on the car! It seems that many just slap them on and go. Well what are you guys using for autox AND track? Is there a decent combo that works well like the 400f/ 400r? Or 400f/ 600r? I'm guessing those are good setups that many people answer b/c they've had good experience with them. Would it make sense to say that autoxers like f/r rates to be more even, whereas the roadracers prefer more of a 2/3 f-r?

I remember not long ago, it was postulated by many that the japanese coilover kits come in higher f than r rates b/c the jdm road racers actually ran wider tires in the front and that they got the car to rotate with skinnier rubber out back.

Assuming you want to run something like neo here in an s03 or azenis for track and autox, would it make sense to run 400f/600r and just play with the tire pressures to get the desired rotation?

(I know that bars should be part of the package, and are they relevant to this discussion too?)

And of course, if there's a thread with this info please just link me to it. I found some with little bits of info that I'm looking for, but collectively they still don't give me the "big picture" answer I'm looking for.

 

It depends on what the person's intended scope of use is for the car. A vehicle such as Catch22 or Phat-S's that is not registered for street use and is only raced on track will be running much higher spring rates. These rates would make the car a nightmare to daily drive.

Next - There is a difference between coilover rates and standard rates (by colover I mean the adjustable variety). Some people have adjustables while others do not.

Next - Competitive autocrossing and competitive road racing will require different setups. Autocross cars are set up for quick transitions while a road race car is typically set up much looser.

Sway Bars - Since a swaybar effectively changes your spring rates this becomes a factor in the equation as well.

Finally - Preference comes into play. Some people perfer different degrees of looseness or control from their cars.

I am pulling this info off the cuff so if I am wrong regarding anything please correct me.

 

Wow .. 3 spring rate threads all on the front page.

Some of the variance I am sure comes from misinformation, but setups for pure autox, pure track, and pure street vary by a good bit. I am seting up my car for pure track, so the choices I have made might be a little different from a car setup for daily driving and part time track use.

I have also heard that high spring rates don't mix well with street tires for AutoX. Maybe some1 with more autox knowledge will back that one.

The stock setup on the Type-R is rather nice. I would not go and put shitty sport springs on it if your goal is anything other then looks and a cool drop.

Off the shelf sport springs are for street use and looks. By keeping the F/R ratios close to stock, they don't change the underlying handling characteristics of the car much. You get a little bit better feel from them becuase the car is now lower and the spring rates are a little higher then stock. Plus they are usualy used with good shocks. AT the limit though, they behave like the stock setup. In our case, push like a pig.

I have 400/550 on right now. If you want ride this Sunday, lemme know. I will be running in the afternoon. So far I am loving this setup. I have yet to get it out on track or get the camber setup perfectly, but from the 3 runs at the last AutoX I am liking it a lot already. I am running off the shelf Konis and the 550# in the rear feels under dampened, even at allmost full stiff. The rears will probably need to get a re-valve since stock Konis are really only good to about 600#.

You should setup your car for what you want it to do. Is it your daily driver? Do you drive fast on the steet? Do you mostly AutoX? Do you plan to run street tires?

Getting on some linear ERS race springs will make a world of difference even if you don't go with instane rates. The ERS springs are short and have very little travel. There is none of the slop you get from sport springs. The car sets almost intantly and has very crisp transitions.

For an entry level setup, I would try 350/400 or 400/450 with a set of Koni Yellows. The nice thing with the coilover sleeve setup is you can change the springs out easily and cheaply once you are ready to move up in rates. For AutoX, I think those will be nice. Not too bad for the street either. Though now your car will be willing to rotate more .. so late night jackassery can get you in trouble fast.

The bars on the R are fine the way they are, IMHO. Alignment setup would be a better place to spend your time.

EDIT: spelling and typos


[Modified by SPiFF, 12:26 PM 3/20/2002]

 

Cobra and SPiFF, thanks for the replies.

It was kind of tongue in cheek the way I titled this thread - I half expected to get flamed (as has happened a lot lately, but I am 100% to blame for that. ). But I also figured with such a title, this thread would pop up again when I come back and try to find it in a search. Things rarely stay on the 1st page for long these days.....

At least I didn't post a thread like "is the fastest way around a corner called 'drifting?'"

That does bring up an interesting question on how to set up a suspension for drift... (Another thread coming soon, perhaps? )

But back to the topic at hand: Thanks for the offer SPiFF. I'll be in SM and have to run in the morning. If you run at the same time, we'll just have to space ourselves out a little so we can jump back and forth between cars. No I certainly wouldn't change out just the springs for cosmetic reasons (although the "moon patrol" look does occasionally pain me). I feel like the handling of the car stock is one of it's strong suits, and believe me it's much more car than I am driver - has been since before I got it. But Casey's thread not so long ago brought back some of the curiosities I had about suspension setup for autox vs. track. That and the fact that I have an opportunity to get an outstanding deal on some top of the line coilovers made me wonder if I should take the opportunity. I'm still undecided at this point..... And fwiw, I was talking to the realtime guys and another PY itr owner from NY when we were at Road Atlanta last year for a WC race... I *think* I remember the guy telling me that they were using 600f/ 1200r! I can't remember what the realtime guys were using - they were more tight-lipped if I recall correctly.

 

The difference between this question and all the others is that it's actually a good question

Some of it is driver preference - how oversteering a car do you want? Some of it is cost. Can you afford enough shock to go with those 800lb springs? Is the car a trailer queen or do you drive it on a 50 mile commute every day? Some of it is the type of competition. You autocross - are the sites you autocross on very smooth, or very rough? Or both? Catch 22 road races his car exclusively...so he can run a much higher spring rate without worrying about upsetting the car over huge bumps in parking lots.

 

Anything over 600lbs generally requires revalved shocks and can't be driven on the street.

For street/autoX/track use I suggest 400f and 500r with the stock type R bar. As you get better, you can loosen it up by adding a bigger rear bar or higher rear spring rates. Use coilovers and lower the car about an inch (for a typeR). This should give you about 2 degrees negative camber in the front and about 1.5 in the rear. Toe the front out about 1/8 inch.

Ask good questions... get good answers.
And don't take suspension advice from anyone who doesn't know what their friggin' spring rates are for christ's sake.

Scott, who never thought he'd own 1200lb springs... I'm insane, somebody help me.

 

Me: "What kind of spring rates are you running"?
Driver1 "Skunk 2" <--End conversation
Driver2 "400 up front, 500 in back" <--Worth continuing the conversation

 

You posted a bounded well framed question. Had you posted, ``Yo .. what spring rates do I need to make my car faaaaast?'', you would have no doubt received flames.

Suspension setup is a work in progress. Most people change setups several times before the find the one that works. Do some research and then pick up a setup you think will work for the driving you will be doing.


[Modified by SPiFF, 8:10 PM 3/20/2002]