Lotus Elise: Too fast for its weight and power?
12-07-2006, 04:57 PM
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Lotus Elise: Too fast for its weight and power?
Elise - 2000 lbs 190 hp 5.5 Sec
GSR - 2600 lbs 170 hp 7.4 Sec (Approx. figures from 7.1 to 7.4 sec)
How Lotus do it? Even when you consider that it weighs only 2000lbs, the 0 to 60 figures are simply amazing when compared to other cars of somewhat similar power and weight.
Recently we had some runs between my friends GSR and an Elise. My friends GSR with some very basic mods (Header + CAI + Exhaust) and some weight reduction ( 2400 lbs),should be pushing around 180 hp (approx). I was sitting with my other friend in a stock Elise. The weight difference between Elise and GSR at that point was just 200 lbs or so . In multiple runs (switching drivers) , the GSR didn't even come close to Elises's time.
GSR - 2600 lbs 170 hp 7.4 Sec (Approx. figures from 7.1 to 7.4 sec)
How Lotus do it? Even when you consider that it weighs only 2000lbs, the 0 to 60 figures are simply amazing when compared to other cars of somewhat similar power and weight.
Recently we had some runs between my friends GSR and an Elise. My friends GSR with some very basic mods (Header + CAI + Exhaust) and some weight reduction ( 2400 lbs),should be pushing around 180 hp (approx). I was sitting with my other friend in a stock Elise. The weight difference between Elise and GSR at that point was just 200 lbs or so . In multiple runs (switching drivers) , the GSR didn't even come close to Elises's time.
12-07-2006, 05:05 PM
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Re: Lotus Elise: Too fast for its weight and power? (schumi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schumi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Elise - 2000 lbs 190 hp 5.5 Sec
GSR - 2600 lbs 170 hp 7.4 Sec (Approx. figures from 7.1 to 7.4 sec)
How Lotus do it? Even when you consider that it weighs only 2000lbs, the 0 to 60 figures are simply amazing when compared to other cars of somewhat similar power and weight.
Recently we had some runs between my friends GSR and an Elise. My friends GSR with some very basic mods (Header + CAI + Exhaust) and some weight reduction ( 2400 lbs),should be pushing around 180 hp (approx). I was sitting with my other friend in a stock Elise. The weight difference between Elise and GSR at that point was just 200 lbs or so . In multiple runs (switching drivers) , the GSR didn't even come close to Elises's time.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Weight, gearing, traction, and overall powerband will determine acceleration. Just looking at weight and peak power, doesn't really tell all that much. Unfortunately, thats all that manufacturers give us to go off of when buying a car.
Damnit, new cars need to come with a dyno sheet on the window, so we can see how the engine behaves over the whole rpm band, and not just the peak numbers.
GSR - 2600 lbs 170 hp 7.4 Sec (Approx. figures from 7.1 to 7.4 sec)
How Lotus do it? Even when you consider that it weighs only 2000lbs, the 0 to 60 figures are simply amazing when compared to other cars of somewhat similar power and weight.
Recently we had some runs between my friends GSR and an Elise. My friends GSR with some very basic mods (Header + CAI + Exhaust) and some weight reduction ( 2400 lbs),should be pushing around 180 hp (approx). I was sitting with my other friend in a stock Elise. The weight difference between Elise and GSR at that point was just 200 lbs or so . In multiple runs (switching drivers) , the GSR didn't even come close to Elises's time.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Weight, gearing, traction, and overall powerband will determine acceleration. Just looking at weight and peak power, doesn't really tell all that much. Unfortunately, thats all that manufacturers give us to go off of when buying a car.
Damnit, new cars need to come with a dyno sheet on the window, so we can see how the engine behaves over the whole rpm band, and not just the peak numbers.
12-07-2006, 05:24 PM
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Re: Lotus Elise: Too fast for its weight and power? (TunerN00b)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TunerN00b »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Weight, gearing, traction, and overall powerband will determine acceleration. Just looking at weight and peak power, doesn't really tell all that much. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Agreed
Matching the gear ratios to the powerband does wonders for acceleration.
Agreed
Matching the gear ratios to the powerband does wonders for acceleration.
12-07-2006, 05:30 PM
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Re: Lotus Elise: Too fast for its weight and power? (RacerZook)
Not to mention, a RWD car (especially rear or mid-engined) is going to have a sheer physics advantage on a FWD car due to the weight (read: traction) falling away from the front tires and moving to the rears under acceleration. But like the others said, gearing, powerband, weight, aero, etc are all factors.
12-07-2006, 05:38 PM
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Re: Lotus Elise: Too fast for its weight and power? (FlyZlow)
Why would purpose built cars like a Miata or MR2 doesn't do a good job on these aspacts like gearing, powerband? 
12-07-2006, 05:42 PM
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Re: Lotus Elise: Too fast for its weight and power? (schumi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schumi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why would purpose built cars like a Miata or MR2 doesn't do a good job on these aspacts like gearing, powerband? </TD></TR></TABLE>
^
Those cars don't weigh 2000lbs. The miata is FR with little tires stock. MR2 is heavy stock.
</TD></TR></TABLE>^
Those cars don't weigh 2000lbs. The miata is FR with little tires stock. MR2 is heavy stock.
12-07-2006, 05:53 PM
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Re: Lotus Elise: Too fast for its weight and power? (88 rex)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 88 rex »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
^
Those cars don't weigh 2000lbs. The miata is FR with little tires stock. MR2 is heavy stock. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I was trying to find out why wouldn't Miata or Toyota spent time on fine tuning gearing and powerband if that's what it takes to acheive better numbers on thoses so called sports cars
oh btw Miata weighs just above 2300 lbs??
^
Those cars don't weigh 2000lbs. The miata is FR with little tires stock. MR2 is heavy stock. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I was trying to find out why wouldn't Miata or Toyota spent time on fine tuning gearing and powerband if that's what it takes to acheive better numbers on thoses so called sports cars
oh btw Miata weighs just above 2300 lbs??
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12-07-2006, 06:24 PM
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Re: Lotus Elise: Too fast for its weight and power? (schumi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schumi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I was trying to find out why wouldn't Miata or Toyota spent time on fine tuning gearing and powerband if that's what it takes to acheive better numbers on thoses so called sports cars
oh btw Miata weighs just above 2300 lbs?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Who's saying that they aren't geared properly for what they are? They are more of an everyday around town, to and from work, kind of car. I don't know the gearing of either car in question, but the Lotus was built with one purpose in mind. The Miata is also down on power compared to the lotus. The MR2 is just another type of beast. I don't have the weight in front of me, but I'd guess is substantially heavier than the Lotus.
The lotus is all about light, quick cars designed for speed and fun.
I was trying to find out why wouldn't Miata or Toyota spent time on fine tuning gearing and powerband if that's what it takes to acheive better numbers on thoses so called sports cars
oh btw Miata weighs just above 2300 lbs?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Who's saying that they aren't geared properly for what they are? They are more of an everyday around town, to and from work, kind of car. I don't know the gearing of either car in question, but the Lotus was built with one purpose in mind. The Miata is also down on power compared to the lotus. The MR2 is just another type of beast. I don't have the weight in front of me, but I'd guess is substantially heavier than the Lotus.
The lotus is all about light, quick cars designed for speed and fun.
12-07-2006, 06:27 PM
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Re: Lotus Elise: Too fast for its weight and power? (schumi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schumi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was trying to find out why wouldn't Miata or Toyota spent time on fine tuning gearing and powerband if that's what it takes to acheive better numbers on thoses so called sports cars
oh btw Miata weighs just above 2300 lbs?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
The elise uses the celica gts motor...far from an efficient power band (but what four banger isn't?).
I'm not sure if the elise comes with 50/50 f/r weight distribution...I think it is a little rear biased which, like others said, will only help it more coming off the line.
oh btw Miata weighs just above 2300 lbs?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
The elise uses the celica gts motor...far from an efficient power band (but what four banger isn't?).
I'm not sure if the elise comes with 50/50 f/r weight distribution...I think it is a little rear biased which, like others said, will only help it more coming off the line.
12-07-2006, 06:46 PM
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Re: Lotus Elise: Too fast for its weight and power? (azian21485)
The Elise uses the Celica GTS motor but the ECU has been remapped for a better power delivery curve.
The latest MR-2 sold in the US weighed 2200 lb according to some sources, but the US car only had the 138 HP engine. The Japanese equivalent (MR-S) had the Celica GTS engine, but I don't know the other specs as far as weight and gearing, etc.
The latest MR-2 sold in the US weighed 2200 lb according to some sources, but the US car only had the 138 HP engine. The Japanese equivalent (MR-S) had the Celica GTS engine, but I don't know the other specs as far as weight and gearing, etc.
12-07-2006, 06:58 PM
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Re: Lotus Elise: Too fast for its weight and power? (azian21485)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by azian21485 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The elise uses the celica gts motor...far from an efficient power band (but what four banger isn't?).
I'm not sure if the elise comes with 50/50 f/r weight distribution...I think it is a little rear biased which, like others said, will only help it more coming off the line.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The Lotus Elise has porsche 911 rear weight distribution, 40% Front/60% Rear...
At 1960lbs and 190hp the Elise is just over a 10:1 lb/hp ratio, don't see what so hard to see it doing a 5 second 0-60 time when a C5 vette with 9.5 lb/hp ratio does it in 4 whatever seconds...
And FWD verses RWD (GSR verses Elise)...as was said before under acceleration RWD transfers weight to the drive wheels while FWD transfers weight off the drive wheels.
The 2nd generation MR2 turbo weighed over 2600lbs with 200hp and did 0-60 in just over 6 seconds....
Modified by Vracer111 at 10:12 PM 12/7/2006
The elise uses the celica gts motor...far from an efficient power band (but what four banger isn't?).
I'm not sure if the elise comes with 50/50 f/r weight distribution...I think it is a little rear biased which, like others said, will only help it more coming off the line.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The Lotus Elise has porsche 911 rear weight distribution, 40% Front/60% Rear...
At 1960lbs and 190hp the Elise is just over a 10:1 lb/hp ratio, don't see what so hard to see it doing a 5 second 0-60 time when a C5 vette with 9.5 lb/hp ratio does it in 4 whatever seconds...
And FWD verses RWD (GSR verses Elise)...as was said before under acceleration RWD transfers weight to the drive wheels while FWD transfers weight off the drive wheels.
The 2nd generation MR2 turbo weighed over 2600lbs with 200hp and did 0-60 in just over 6 seconds....
Modified by Vracer111 at 10:12 PM 12/7/2006
12-08-2006, 05:56 AM
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The elise uses the shortest gearing that is available for the gts engine, even shorter than the celica's. Other more mass market cars arn't likely to run gears that short because of fuel milage and some people are too damn lazy to shift gears.
Also the wieght distribution helps tremendously. Infact the fastest way Ive seen to get an Elise off the line is to launch it from the limiter and you get almost no wheel spin. Also, who ever came up with the idea that 50:50 was the ideal weight distribution for a car is horribly mistaken.
Also the wieght distribution helps tremendously. Infact the fastest way Ive seen to get an Elise off the line is to launch it from the limiter and you get almost no wheel spin. Also, who ever came up with the idea that 50:50 was the ideal weight distribution for a car is horribly mistaken.
12-08-2006, 07:05 AM
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Re: Lotus Elise: Too fast for its weight and power? (schumi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schumi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Elise - 2000 lbs 190 hp 5.5 Sec
GSR - 2600 lbs 170 hp 7.4 Sec (Approx. figures from 7.1 to 7.4 sec)</TD></TR></TABLE>
GSR(1992-1993) 2500lbs 160hp 6.7 sec(with a 4.4 no less)
GSR - 2600 lbs 170 hp 7.4 Sec (Approx. figures from 7.1 to 7.4 sec)</TD></TR></TABLE>
GSR(1992-1993) 2500lbs 160hp 6.7 sec(with a 4.4 no less)
12-08-2006, 07:20 AM
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Re: (sdcivic549)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sdcivic549 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, who ever came up with the idea that 50:50 was the ideal weight distribution for a car is horribly mistaken.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It all depends on what you want to do with it.
Also, you have to take into account the size and type of tires that each car was tested with. Not all cars' OE tires are equal.
What is this thread in RR/AX again?
It all depends on what you want to do with it.
Also, you have to take into account the size and type of tires that each car was tested with. Not all cars' OE tires are equal.
What is this thread in RR/AX again?
12-08-2006, 04:30 PM
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Re: (DaveSi677)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaveSi677 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">didn't Lotus offer a upgrade K20 package which is supposedly alot faster?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nope, that was an aftermarket swap.
Nope, that was an aftermarket swap.
12-08-2006, 04:54 PM
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Re: (FlyZlow)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FlyZlow »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What is this thread in RR/AX again? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Elise is a worthy track car that is somewhat streetable?
RR/AX/HPDE/Open track forum
</TD></TR></TABLE>Elise is a worthy track car that is somewhat streetable?
RR/AX/HPDE/Open track forum
12-09-2006, 07:16 PM
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Re: (Vitt1)
watch this k20 powered exige video comparison with stock motor...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...earch=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...earch=
12-09-2006, 07:51 PM
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Re: (STN_Pat)
Edmunds rewview of Exige
2,077-pound coupe from zero to 60 mph in just 4.1 seconds and from zero to 100 mph in only 11 seconds.
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vd...ber=1
2,077-pound coupe from zero to 60 mph in just 4.1 seconds and from zero to 100 mph in only 11 seconds.
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vd...ber=1
12-11-2006, 08:31 AM
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I seem to remember that Lotus spent time tweaking the GTS power curve and gearing as it would drop out of it's power band stock.
My JDM GSR powered 95 CX hatch did 13.6 @ 100mph (2.1 60ft) stock with 155 whp dynojet.
So with 20-30 more hp and 200ish pounds less weight sound right.
My JDM GSR powered 95 CX hatch did 13.6 @ 100mph (2.1 60ft) stock with 155 whp dynojet.
So with 20-30 more hp and 200ish pounds less weight sound right.
12-11-2006, 09:51 AM
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Re: (jonshonda)
beautiful car, but expensive ... seen several Elise at the track and they performed well for the most part (specially on a small track like Streets) where they should shine...
12-11-2006, 01:28 PM
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Re: (Reilly)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Reilly »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My JDM GSR powered 95 CX hatch did 13.6 @ 100mph (2.1 60ft) stock with 155 whp dynojet.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Man I must drive like crap.
My JDM GSR powered 95 CX hatch did 13.6 @ 100mph (2.1 60ft) stock with 155 whp dynojet.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Man I must drive like crap.
12-11-2006, 04:12 PM
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Re: (88 rex)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 88 rex »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Man I must drive like crap. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Me too....14.8 with 177whp on tap in an eg hatch.
I like the elise....but I think I would want something that can make more power.
Man I must drive like crap.
</TD></TR></TABLE> Me too....14.8 with 177whp on tap in an eg hatch.
I like the elise....but I think I would want something that can make more power.