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Look you can write all you want about your perceived definition of a camber curve however there is nothing in the definition of the words camber curve that delineate a zero degree steering angle. Anyone can measure a camber curve at three, five or twenty-five degrees of steering angle. Likewise at any steering angle other than zero, caster affects camber, period.
I don’t know how much time your car spends at a zero degree steering angle, not much I would hazard to guess, mine is more likely to be found off center.....
No, you can't. Let me try it another way. "Camber Curve" denotes a shape that, if you were to plot camber change vs. suspension deflection you would get a curve. Lets give an example and say you get 1* of camber gain for each inch of suspension compression. If you were to turn the wheel 15* and your KPI and caster combined to give you -1* of static camber, you've only changed your zero point. The amount of camber change in bump (THE definition of camber curve) would not change. You would still get 1* camber change per inch of suspension compression.
While you are correct that when you turn the wheel, the car will roll, you cannot predict how much the car will roll for your steering angle. This is because you might find you're turning tightly but not at a high lateral acceleration, or turning very little at a very high lateral acceleration.
Back on topic. If I were able to correct the bump steer I probably still wouldn't choose to swap the UCAs. I might test it again to see if there were any room for improvement with the change, but I'm currently not seeing anything wrong with the handling that may be addressable with more caster. Like I said, Honda did a bang up job with the front suspension geometry on the EG/DC chassis. There isn't a whole lot of room for improvement. I know RTR did a bunch of changes, but I'm willing to bet the time improvements those changes meted were quite small.
Scott mentions in his measurements that he only measured on one side, so I'm not sure if that means those numbers he got should be doubled. (I haven't re-read that whole thread) Regardless, though the change is small, the impact on the feel of the car was quite notable. So much so, that after the first event that I drove the car with the swapped UCAs, I couldn't understand why it felt like such utter rubbish. It was at that point that I surmised that it may have been bumpsteer at play and then went through the hassle of measuring it all out. I was expecting the change to make the car better, not worse!
BTW, the UCA is more prone to contacting the tower when it's swapped. I've got a pair of pretty new arms sitting on my bench that are noticeably twisted from that contact.
No, you can't. Let me try it another way. "Camber Curve" denotes a shape that, if you were to plot camber change vs. suspension deflection you would get a curve. Lets give an example and say you get 1* of camber gain for each inch of suspension compression. If you were to turn the wheel 15* and your KPI and caster combined to give you -1* of static camber, you've only changed your zero point. The amount of camber change in bump (THE definition of camber curve) would not change. You would still get 1* camber change per inch of suspension compression.
While you are correct that when you turn the wheel, the car will roll, you cannot predict how much the car will roll for your steering angle. This is because you might find you're turning tightly but not at a high lateral acceleration, or turning very little at a very high lateral acceleration.
Back on topic. If I were able to correct the bump steer I probably still wouldn't choose to swap the UCAs. I might test it again to see if there were any room for improvement with the change, but I'm currently not seeing anything wrong with the handling that may be addressable with more caster. Like I said, Honda did a bang up job with the front suspension geometry on the EG/DC chassis. There isn't a whole lot of room for improvement. I know RTR did a bunch of changes, but I'm willing to bet the time improvements those changes meted were quite small.
Scott mentions in his measurements that he only measured on one side, so I'm not sure if that means those numbers he got should be doubled. (I haven't re-read that whole thread) Regardless, though the change is small, the impact on the feel of the car was quite notable. So much so, that after the first event that I drove the car with the swapped UCAs, I couldn't understand why it felt like such utter rubbish. It was at that point that I surmised that it may have been bumpsteer at play and then went through the hassle of measuring it all out. I was expecting the change to make the car better, not worse!
BTW, the UCA is more prone to contacting the tower when it's swapped. I've got a pair of pretty new arms sitting on my bench that are noticeably twisted from that contact.
Thank you sir for changing my mind. Although I am a tinkerer and would like to experiment it seems that the improvement is nil compared to the negatives. Ill head to back of the room now to listen some more.
This one very much seems intended for a street car that won't see the harsh conditions of track use.
I am running the whiteline caster kit for almost two years now..And my car is strictly a race car..Never had issues with that. The only modification i did, was to make my own aluminum spacers, instead of using the metal shims. I have also swapped the UCA. Swapping the UCA gave me ~2.5* of caster, and i also got an extra 1* from the whiteline kit..
To those that did this installation themselves, how did you proceed to press out the LCA carriage bolt, marked in the green circle (right), in the image below? I'm hoping to press it out with while the bolt in the yellow circle is slightly loosened and still attached to the car's frame. Only tool I can think of is that ball joint removal tool from autozone. The car's is unpleasant to drive on the highway.
Edit: i may have come up with a method.
Place my 32mm socket around the bolt head. Place a nut on the bolt's threaded tip. Then place a 6 inch c clamp on it. For leverage use an 8 inch extension socket with a 19mm deep socket on the c clamp's handle. Main concern is whether the c clamp's handle will break and of course if the c clamp itself is long enough.
2nd edit: For anyone interested I took some measurements. Length of OEM LCA bolt, from the REAR LCA is 3.5"; legnth from bolt head to start of threads is around 2". The 32mm impact socket I got from harbor freight has a depth of 2.06", the 30mm 12 point impact socket from autozone has a depth of 2.37". Length of both the impact socket was 3.0+"; therefore a 6" is most likely TOO short.
Seems best way to go is to just get the ball joint removal tool
04-22-2010, 03:00 AM
Re: Integra caster kit
