hyperfest write up
07-08-2003, 01:22 PM
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hyperfest write up
Highlighted on main page: http://www.nerdsracing.com
Permanently @ http://www.nerdsracing.com/NN_Hyper_070503.htm
It's pretty informal, but you'll get the drift.
Permanently @ http://www.nerdsracing.com/NN_Hyper_070503.htm
It's pretty informal, but you'll get the drift.
07-08-2003, 03:53 PM
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Re: hyperfest write up
Nice write up...wish I could have been there. I was getting baked at an auto-x instead 
I'm curious about one thing...at what point did nasa not require a helmet while on track? I find this very odd, unless it was the slow laps that follow the pace car...
I'm curious about one thing...at what point did nasa not require a helmet while on track? I find this very odd, unless it was the slow laps that follow the pace car...
07-09-2003, 03:17 AM
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Re: hyperfest write up (DSC240sx)
The event was co run by BSR and NASA. The pics of drivers without helemts was a part run by BSR. As far as I know NASA ALWAYS required helmets.
07-09-2003, 04:33 AM
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Re: hyperfest write up (DSC240sx)
On a regular NASA weekend, You are required to wear helmet, Long Sleeve Tee shirt, Long Pants, Numbers have to be on the car not on window, Car has to go through Tech before going to grid and needs a Tech sticker prior to first session or Grid will not let you out on track.
If the instructor is going to Tech the car then they need to hand in a Tech sheet to Grid prior to first session on Saturday. Same safety equipment that is supplied for the driver has to be supplied for the instructor if you are in any HPDE. Everyone needs a wristband and that's about it.
If the instructor is going to Tech the car then they need to hand in a Tech sheet to Grid prior to first session on Saturday. Same safety equipment that is supplied for the driver has to be supplied for the instructor if you are in any HPDE. Everyone needs a wristband and that's about it.
07-09-2003, 04:41 AM
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Re: hyperfest write up (thecaptain)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thecaptain »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The event was co run by BSR and NASA. </TD></TR></TABLE>
IMO I think that BSR ran the event and NASA worked it. We had to follow pretty much all of BSR rules, and now I love NASA even more, because of safety reasons. I do not think I will ever work for a BSR event EVER again.
Personal opinion only.
The Ball,
P.S.-NASA did a great job this weekend, Big thanks to Chris Cobbeto and J.J., as always for putting on a good event. Even Grumpy showed up this weekend. It was good to see him back this year. At least for one event so far, hopefully we will see him more in the coming events.
IMO I think that BSR ran the event and NASA worked it. We had to follow pretty much all of BSR rules, and now I love NASA even more, because of safety reasons. I do not think I will ever work for a BSR event EVER again.
Personal opinion only.
The Ball,
P.S.-NASA did a great job this weekend, Big thanks to Chris Cobbeto and J.J., as always for putting on a good event. Even Grumpy showed up this weekend. It was good to see him back this year. At least for one event so far, hopefully we will see him more in the coming events.
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07-09-2003, 05:11 AM
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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It was weird to see some folks not wearing helmets, and this made me question NASA's safety policies.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good write-up, but please edit this line. BSR was the group that allowed people on-track without helmets (it was on their insurance), NASA just had to go with their decision.
We have already covered this subject several times here...
It was weird to see some folks not wearing helmets, and this made me question NASA's safety policies.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good write-up, but please edit this line. BSR was the group that allowed people on-track without helmets (it was on their insurance), NASA just had to go with their decision.
We have already covered this subject several times here...
07-09-2003, 05:55 AM
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Re: (JMU1337)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JMU1337 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BSR was the group that allowed people on-track without helmets (it was on their insurance), NASA just had to go with their decision.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
NASA DID NOT Have To go along with BSR's decision to allow people on track without helmets. Just because it may be a regular BSR allowance doesn't mean NASA couldn't have required students/riders to wear a helmet. I'm sure this was done because A)The kids who have never been on track(80% attendance) wouldn't have their own helmet. AND B)It would be too time consuming and possibly too expensive to hand out loaner helmets to each and every rider. I'm sure this decision was made by NASA... They could have required whatever they wanted, regardless of who was in charge of insurance. I'm sure the insurance company would have rather had the kids in helmets.
NASA-VA Owns HyperFest, BSR doesn't. There is nothing in their agreement with BSR stating that NASA IS REQUIRED to allow kids on track without helmets. It was done with everybody's convenience in mind... not safety. And this among other things about Hyperfest disappoints me the most... that SAFETY is being skimped on. Hyperfest should be about showing the kids how to play SAFELY, and showing them what is required to be able to do the things that they WANT to do. No matter how good you are on track, or how little you actually go, you should never skimp on safety, and that should be the NUMBER 1 point that ANY Driver's School should make. I Love NASA. I race with them, and I instruct with them, but I don't agree on their HypeRfest rules and regulations, and that is my personal opinion. I will probably continue to have a negative attitude towards hyperfest until safety is taken a little more seriously. These kids come from all over to have a fun, safe weekend, and their parents trust an organization to make sure that things are as safe as they CAN be, given the circumstance... is that what we are providing them? I will leave it at that.
BSR was the group that allowed people on-track without helmets (it was on their insurance), NASA just had to go with their decision.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
NASA DID NOT Have To go along with BSR's decision to allow people on track without helmets. Just because it may be a regular BSR allowance doesn't mean NASA couldn't have required students/riders to wear a helmet. I'm sure this was done because A)The kids who have never been on track(80% attendance) wouldn't have their own helmet. AND B)It would be too time consuming and possibly too expensive to hand out loaner helmets to each and every rider. I'm sure this decision was made by NASA... They could have required whatever they wanted, regardless of who was in charge of insurance. I'm sure the insurance company would have rather had the kids in helmets.
NASA-VA Owns HyperFest, BSR doesn't. There is nothing in their agreement with BSR stating that NASA IS REQUIRED to allow kids on track without helmets. It was done with everybody's convenience in mind... not safety. And this among other things about Hyperfest disappoints me the most... that SAFETY is being skimped on. Hyperfest should be about showing the kids how to play SAFELY, and showing them what is required to be able to do the things that they WANT to do. No matter how good you are on track, or how little you actually go, you should never skimp on safety, and that should be the NUMBER 1 point that ANY Driver's School should make. I Love NASA. I race with them, and I instruct with them, but I don't agree on their HypeRfest rules and regulations, and that is my personal opinion. I will probably continue to have a negative attitude towards hyperfest until safety is taken a little more seriously. These kids come from all over to have a fun, safe weekend, and their parents trust an organization to make sure that things are as safe as they CAN be, given the circumstance... is that what we are providing them? I will leave it at that.
07-09-2003, 06:03 AM
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Re: (XR4racer)
I think the writer has mistaken the cruise (parade) laps, which are always done sans helmet, as real full speed laps. No participants went on a hot track without helmets.
I did hear that Don Barrack drove on track during the shotgun rides without a helmet though....
but thats his own stupidity
I did hear that Don Barrack drove on track during the shotgun rides without a helmet though....
but thats his own stupidity
07-09-2003, 06:06 AM
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Re: (elgorey)
That's Good, but I did see more than just Don on track without a helmet, and there WERE participants during some of the activities, on track without a helmet... Look at the pictures.. I WAS there. If I was working CONTROL... and I have been on many occasions, NOBODY would be allowed on track without Long Sleeves, Long pants, and a helmet, unless they were on orientation/parade laps. That is the level of safety that should be minimum at a track event.
07-09-2003, 06:24 AM
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Re: (XR4racer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XR4racer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's Good, but I did see more than just Don on track without a helmet, and there WERE participants during some of the activities, on track without a helmet... Look at the pictures.. I WAS there. If I was working CONTROL... and I have been on many occasions, NOBODY would be allowed on track without Long Sleeves, Long pants, and a helmet, unless they were on orientation/parade laps. That is the level of safety that should be minimum at a track event. </TD></TR></TABLE>
First of all I was working Grid this past weekend,
Second, We had a wall o helmets that was provided for all students in HPDE and hyperdrive with NASA helmets from the Cobbeto trailer. Grid made SURE that each student had a helmet.
There were cruise laps that were not required to wear helmets but they had a pace car out the whole session and the speeds were kept to 60 mph. I for one would like to see the pics of students without helmets. The shotgun ridealongs had some instructors without helmets but all the riders had helmets.
First of all I was working Grid this past weekend,
Second, We had a wall o helmets that was provided for all students in HPDE and hyperdrive with NASA helmets from the Cobbeto trailer. Grid made SURE that each student had a helmet.
There were cruise laps that were not required to wear helmets but they had a pace car out the whole session and the speeds were kept to 60 mph. I for one would like to see the pics of students without helmets. The shotgun ridealongs had some instructors without helmets but all the riders had helmets.
07-09-2003, 06:32 AM
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Re: (FURBALL B-16)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FURBALL B-16 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I for one would like to see the pics of students without helmets. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Do these look like touring laps to you? Good, because they are not.
And these are just a few from ONE person's album.
I for one would like to see the pics of students without helmets. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Do these look like touring laps to you? Good, because they are not.
And these are just a few from ONE person's album.
07-09-2003, 06:35 AM
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Re: (XR4racer)
These pics looks like sunday afternoons drift seesion... however it could have been touring laps as there we a lot of people hanhing way back and making high speed runs...
07-09-2003, 06:39 AM
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Re: (BryanSprinkel)
They are NOT doing Touring Laps. They are participants in a track event, on a HOT course. They are Not wearing helmets. Should they be? Yes.
How hard is that to understand?!?
hmm... Funny how those pics mysteriously disappeared!?!
Modified by XR4racer at 10:54 AM 7/9/2003
How hard is that to understand?!?
hmm... Funny how those pics mysteriously disappeared!?!
Modified by XR4racer at 10:54 AM 7/9/2003
07-09-2003, 06:55 AM
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Re: (XR4racer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XR4racer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They are NOT doing Touring Laps. They are participants in a track event, on a HOT course. They are Not wearing helmets. Should they be? Yes.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I dont think they are doing anything more than returning to the pits after the drifting contest, or doing touring laps. In the first pic there seems to be other cars on track, which would lead me to believe that pic was taken from a touring lap. Should he be driving at speed during this time, no. Does it happen at "other" events, yes. It's a shame that people want to try and drag BSR's name through the mud. A lot of those instructors are able to do things in cars that most of us only dream to be able to do.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XR4racer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
hmm... Funny how those pics mysteriously disappeared!?!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I couldnt see the pics in the first place, but was able to cut and paste the link to see them. Now they're showing up just fine.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I dont think they are doing anything more than returning to the pits after the drifting contest, or doing touring laps. In the first pic there seems to be other cars on track, which would lead me to believe that pic was taken from a touring lap. Should he be driving at speed during this time, no. Does it happen at "other" events, yes. It's a shame that people want to try and drag BSR's name through the mud. A lot of those instructors are able to do things in cars that most of us only dream to be able to do.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XR4racer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
hmm... Funny how those pics mysteriously disappeared!?!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I couldnt see the pics in the first place, but was able to cut and paste the link to see them. Now they're showing up just fine.
07-09-2003, 07:17 AM
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Re: (BryanSprinkel)
If they were out there for drifting they should have had a helmut on, unless for some reason they were let by. Touring Laps are very hard to control, I know as I have been out there helping Tony during them, but unfortuanly we can not see the whole track, Saturday's touring laps seems to go pretty well with BSR putting three cars out there and runnign three gourps, on Sunday they tried the same thing, however it did not go as well, and several people where pulled off of the track for hanging back and such.
07-09-2003, 07:31 AM
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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Solracer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If they were out there for drifting they should have had a helmet on, unless for some reason they were let by. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree.
On Saturday, I was standing in the tower at pit out as the drifting people went out on track.. I watched people get yelled at because they were exiting pit out without a helmet, they were stopped, and asked to put their helmet on. From what I could tell, they were lining up close to turn 4, and having to sit there until it was their turn. Would you take your helmet off while just sitting there in 100 + degrees? I know I would. After they did their thing, they returned to turn 4 and waited for the other competitors to finish, then were escorted to the pits. On Sunday, I happened to be sitting in the bleachers behind turn 8. After the contest, I watched a car spin as he was returning to pit road. He was attempting to drift, and lost it. Is that BSR's fault? No.
I agree.
On Saturday, I was standing in the tower at pit out as the drifting people went out on track.. I watched people get yelled at because they were exiting pit out without a helmet, they were stopped, and asked to put their helmet on. From what I could tell, they were lining up close to turn 4, and having to sit there until it was their turn. Would you take your helmet off while just sitting there in 100 + degrees? I know I would. After they did their thing, they returned to turn 4 and waited for the other competitors to finish, then were escorted to the pits. On Sunday, I happened to be sitting in the bleachers behind turn 8. After the contest, I watched a car spin as he was returning to pit road. He was attempting to drift, and lost it. Is that BSR's fault? No.
07-09-2003, 07:36 AM
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Re: (BryanSprinkel)
On the random topic of drifting, my brother now wants to get on the track, and wants to do it with an SR20-powered S13 240SX. Looks like I might get to "borrow" it and give that a shot, heh heh. And yes, 
to helmets, there's not much on the inside of a car that's softer than your head, so in the event of an accident, you lose. Macho BS or surviving a crash without brain damage? Eh...
By the way Bryan, my dad's finally gonna do an HPDE, the September 6,7 one at SP on Shenandoah. He'll be in a red MkIV GTI though, so we'll see, heh heh...
to helmets, there's not much on the inside of a car that's softer than your head, so in the event of an accident, you lose. Macho BS or surviving a crash without brain damage? Eh...By the way Bryan, my dad's finally gonna do an HPDE, the September 6,7 one at SP on Shenandoah. He'll be in a red MkIV GTI though, so we'll see, heh heh...
07-09-2003, 08:01 AM
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Re: hyperfest write up (emwavey)
I just put a call into Don Barrack with BSR to get his point of view before I change anything. I wasn't really trying to accuse anyone, well yeah I guess I was, but that was one sentence out of many praising this event.
The most important fact should be that NASA and BSR is providing an invaluable service, by making road racing accessible.
The important thing, as far as I know anyway, no one was hurt. And as I've read on other posts, this is a relatively new thing, so as time progresses I'm sure the details will be streamlined.
Personally I wasn't in the car, and I don't know what the circumstances were, but as a spectator it seemed weird to see cars on the course filled with passengers without helmets. Could be that I'm just so used to wearing one while autocrossing and track days that my views are a bit skewed.?
If you really want to disect this think about it this way. Do we wear helmets driving back and forth to work? Perhaps we should, since it's probably more dangerous to drive on public roads then on a track. Again the thing I'm trying to express in the article is a good time, and an open door to roadracing. If this makes folks better drivers on the street, then that's way cool!
I apologize if I mis-represented NASA. Now you folks got me doing like real leg work and stuff... man this is just a friggin' hobby, but I guess I should be responsible with it or something.
Thanks for raising the bar.
The most important fact should be that NASA and BSR is providing an invaluable service, by making road racing accessible.
The important thing, as far as I know anyway, no one was hurt. And as I've read on other posts, this is a relatively new thing, so as time progresses I'm sure the details will be streamlined.
Personally I wasn't in the car, and I don't know what the circumstances were, but as a spectator it seemed weird to see cars on the course filled with passengers without helmets. Could be that I'm just so used to wearing one while autocrossing and track days that my views are a bit skewed.?
If you really want to disect this think about it this way. Do we wear helmets driving back and forth to work? Perhaps we should, since it's probably more dangerous to drive on public roads then on a track. Again the thing I'm trying to express in the article is a good time, and an open door to roadracing. If this makes folks better drivers on the street, then that's way cool!
I apologize if I mis-represented NASA. Now you folks got me doing like real leg work and stuff... man this is just a friggin' hobby, but I guess I should be responsible with it or something.
Thanks for raising the bar.
07-09-2003, 08:14 AM
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Re: hyperfest write up (emwavey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by emwavey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Personally I wasn't in the car, and I don't know what the circumstances were, but as a spectator it seemed weird to see cars on the course filled with passengers without helmets. Could be that I'm just so used to wearing one while autocrossing and track days that my views are a bit skewed.?</TD></TR></TABLE>
as has already been stated, these were touring laps. (the fact that the cars were full of spectators only enforces this) this is not unsafe
touring laps are low speed driving around the track. no different than driving around your neighborhood. As a spectator you may not have realized this, but now that you now it is your responsibility to change your writeup to accurately portray the event.
as has already been stated, these were touring laps. (the fact that the cars were full of spectators only enforces this) this is not unsafe
touring laps are low speed driving around the track. no different than driving around your neighborhood. As a spectator you may not have realized this, but now that you now it is your responsibility to change your writeup to accurately portray the event.
07-09-2003, 08:32 AM
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Re: hyperfest write up (emwavey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by emwavey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The most important fact should be that NASA and BSR is providing an invaluable service, by making road racing accessible.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
What does this mean?
Also, speaking of insurance and such - I tried calling NASA HQ this AM but got the VM so if any of you educated folk know the answer I'd appreciate it. What is (or is there at all) the individual insurance coverage for ST/LT disability for entrants at NASA race events? Does this cover paddock "and" race track? Is anyone familiar with anyone that has gone through this process? TIA
Just curious as I have had to think of these things recently and in calling around for ST/LT bene's, found out - not at all to my surprise - that road racing is excluded from my policy.
The most important fact should be that NASA and BSR is providing an invaluable service, by making road racing accessible.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
What does this mean?
Also, speaking of insurance and such - I tried calling NASA HQ this AM but got the VM so if any of you educated folk know the answer I'd appreciate it. What is (or is there at all) the individual insurance coverage for ST/LT disability for entrants at NASA race events? Does this cover paddock "and" race track? Is anyone familiar with anyone that has gone through this process? TIA
Just curious as I have had to think of these things recently and in calling around for ST/LT bene's, found out - not at all to my surprise - that road racing is excluded from my policy.
07-09-2003, 08:32 AM
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Re: hyperfest write up (elgorey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elgorey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
as has already been stated, these were touring laps. (the fact that the cars were full of spectators only enforces this) this is not unsafe
touring laps are low speed driving around the track. no different than driving around your neighborhood. As a spectator you may not have realized this, but now that you now it is your responsibility to change your writeup to accurately portray the event.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Does this look like a guy doing a touring lap?
http://www.pbase.com/image/18821173
From my perspective as a spectator it didn't. So that is why I will respectively wait to hear back for the BSR dude before I write another inaccurate account.
I totally agree it is my responsibility to change this to portray it accurately.
as has already been stated, these were touring laps. (the fact that the cars were full of spectators only enforces this) this is not unsafe
touring laps are low speed driving around the track. no different than driving around your neighborhood. As a spectator you may not have realized this, but now that you now it is your responsibility to change your writeup to accurately portray the event.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Does this look like a guy doing a touring lap?
http://www.pbase.com/image/18821173
From my perspective as a spectator it didn't. So that is why I will respectively wait to hear back for the BSR dude before I write another inaccurate account.
I totally agree it is my responsibility to change this to portray it accurately.