Sometimes when I go to turn in to a 90 degree corner and Im braking, my front end will "float" and I have no turn in until I lose a lot of speed and then the car wants to oversteer.

Whats this called and what can I do about it? Or is it normal and I need to learn to drive?

 

Its called understeer, and you can try slowing down going into the corner for starters. The car wanting to oversteer is probably a result of you lifting off the gas quickly, lift-throttle oversteer. Some do it on purpose to get the car to rotate, but somehow I don't think that was your intention.

v---- good morning Matt

 

The front tires can only do so much. You can't expect hard braking and turning at the same time. Slow down more before starting your turn in.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its called understeer, and you can try slowing down going into the corner for starters. The car wanting to oversteer is probably a result of you lifting off the gas quickly, lift-throttle oversteer. Some do it on purpose to get the car to rotate, but somehow I don't think that was your intention.

v---- good morning Matt </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah, i guess its a wierd understeer. But once the front tires catch usually the back end will want to come around. I'll have to work on my precission

 

btw what can I do to help reduce the understeer? Using ride/height and tire pressure adjustments?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drewbie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">btw what can I do to help reduce the understeer? Using ride/height and tire pressure adjustments?</TD></TR></TABLE>

More seat time

 

well your not suppost to brake while turning because you are using some of the traction the tires have to slow down while trying to grip turning.

 

Increasing the rake by raising up the rear should help. But if you are constantly going into corners too fast, you're going to have understeer no matter what you do.

 

now I feel like a n00b

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hayabusa160 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well your not suppost to brake while turning ....</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's true that you won't get the maximum braking while turning, nor will you get the maximum turning while braking.

However, trail braking might still give you the fastest way around a track.

Saying simply, "don't do that" might not be the correct answer as someone's skills develop.

 

You could run a 245 wide tire in the front and a 125 in the rear. You'll have plenty of rotation.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Increasing the rake by raising up the rear should help. But if you are constantly going into corners too fast, you're going to have understeer no matter what you do. </TD></TR></TABLE>

If you do this, be sure to get the car realigned afterwards. Raising the rear will provide rear toe in, which definately won't help get rid of understeer.

 

what about tire pressures?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drewbie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what about tire pressures?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Please tell us what it is you're tracking so we don't go too far stupidly afield.

Generally, assuming the normal Honda double wishbone car, you can lower the nose and raise the rear to get something like negative 2.5 camber on the front and negative 1.5 camber on the rear. The best handling double wishbone Hondas will have negative 3.0 to 3.5 on the nose, but it's hard to do that with simply lowering the car.

Depending on your driving style, you can then get an alignment to help you. Make sure it's a good, competition oriented, four wheel laser alignment done in a shop that does this kind of thing, and by a technician who is genuinely interested in what you're doing and capable of effecting a good alignment where the front and rear are not fighting each other.

For autocrossing, you might want zero toe on the rear and slight toe out on the front.

For high speed track driving, you might want slight toe *IN* on the rear and zero toe on the front. Having slight toe in on the rear helps with the problem of the car's raising up on the rear suspension, causing toe out and positive camber and generally making for a squirrely experience when threshold braking from 140 and up.

Yes, you can change tyre pressures some to help with rotation.

In my case, I start my Toyos with 27 pounds cold at three corners and 26 pounds on the left front. (Because most tracks are heavy on the left front stresses and it's worse than normal at Summit Point.) Take your pressures immediately after a run or session to see if they've heated up evenly and if they are in the max-grip pressure zones for your make and size tyre.

Taking that experience, you can then lower pressures slightly on the front or raise them slightly in the rear to help with rotation.

Do it logically, progressively and slowly to make sure you can make adequate note of what the incremental changes are doing for you.

 

When sorting out your suspension you have sooooooooo many factors to consider. For example:

Sway Bars
Spring stiffness
Tire pressure
Camber, caster and toe.
Corner Balance
Driving Style
Track temps
Driver ability
Track configuration
The moons gravitational pull

Without all the above info and I'm sure I left out some stuff there is no way we can help you sort out the problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drewbie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">now I feel like a n00b</TD></TR></TABLE>


you are mr i've only been on track once....

yeah quit doing that crap on the streets or i'm gonna tell these guys what you have done on the streets!!!

 

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"></TD></TR></TABLE>


EXACTLY!!!

if only yall knew!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">EXACTLY!!!

if only yall knew!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well...I know a little about you, so if he's worse than that...it's really bad.

Aren't you still the Danville Main Line Drag Champion?