r_kage

I'm having a really difficult time understanding how to estimate paint, and there are also a lot of variables. This is more of an info gathering mission.

I have a 1995 Honda Accord, and the paint on the hood, roof and trunk is pretty much gone--as in, you can see the primer right through whatever thin amount of paint remains. So next year I want to paint the whole thing. I'll definitely do inside the jambs, trunk and under the hood, but I haven't decided on doing the engine well. I have *some* experience using a conventional paint gun on small jobs spraying industrial opaque paints.

I don't expect anyone to say: "you need x amount of gallons of y for your car." For instance: Eastwood says usually a gallon kit for a mid-size car; Popular Mechanics says "for a small- or medium-sized vehicle, you’ll need approximately one gallon of base coat or primer, three gallons of topcoat, and two to three gallons of clear coat." <----that's a huge range.

Instead, I'm wondering if, some the technical sheets you can somewhat estimate how much paint you might need for a particular surface area with this gun or that gun.

Some primers and paints cover better than others, so that's a huge variable. Some colors cover better than others, so that's another. Some brands are better than others (sometimes cheap means less tint). I know there's somethings about % solids. It's those technical things that matter, since maybe one brand requires more coats than another. And I don't think simply doing the "see how much primer you use" trick will work unless you are spraying over with a very opaque paint color (like white maybe?).

The spray guns are variable, too. The HVLP gravity fed many waste less, but that isn't going to matter if the paint estimate is based on what a conventional gun will waste.

The turbine vs air compressor. Does one waste less than another? Sometimes you see a gun or system that says, "You need 25% less paint!" Obviously that can result in huge cost savings OR if the gun is too high priced and you buy too much paint, you lose money!

Water-based vs urethane paint--aside from VOCs is one better, easier, less expensive?

*****************

Here's the thing. I hear a lot about Deltron paint for instance. Then I see 1 gallon of primer is almost $400. How does that compare to, say, $150 primer? I don't remember which line of PPG, but I was on their site in which a flyer claimed that while a price may seem more expensive than say, a similar high end brand, it's cheaper because the additives go further (something to that effect--I read it months ago)... since you have to take in the various components for a ready-to-spray preparation. Like 1 part is going to provide different coverage than 2 part per gallon. As the costs can add up quickly, it's preferable to get a sense of estimation. Does adding pearl effects, for instance, reduce coverage of that layer by a lot?

So basically, rather than asking how much I need, hoping some of you can give me tips for figuring out (calculating) what I need myself. Of course I would aim to buy extra since you don't want to mix paint twice! But not to the point of ridiculousness.

Also, if you DO have equipment that you have used and can compare... where you know something definitely reduces the paint you use, I'd love to hear that.

Sorry this is long, and thank you for having read it. I also don't mind a recommendation on a technical guide. (I'm comfortable with general aspects of paint preparation, masking, sanding, grinding, cleaning and what have you.)

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

Sometimes it depends on the brand of paint, for example some of the cheaper stuff requires additional coats to cover what a quality brand can in let's say two coats.

I've used plenty of products from cheaper to expensive but unless you are going for show quality, expensive stuff really isn't needed. One product that I've been using for some years now and for me holds up really good and looks great for a fair price is PPG Omni Plus. For a car your size you literally can use 3 quarts of base and when mixed 1:1 with reducer gives you 1.5 gallons of sprayable base, which is probably a lot more than needed. One thing I have done lately as well is mix a good reducer like Deltron and actually go with a little less than 1:1 and you get a much deeper look.

As for clear you can buy 1 gallon of PPG Omni Plus clear and you will need a 2:1 catalyst ratio which gives you plenty of enough clear. Now depending on where you live, what temperature you're going to spray etc. etc. will give you an idea of what reducer to use because reducers and catalysts are based on temperature.

r_kage

Az Civic--You just clarified something when you wrote out how that works with the base and reducer. Most people haven't made the direct distinction in there posts that if you need, say 1.5 gallons of base, whether that amount was prior to adding reducer or after and that might be why the wildly different amounts. Usually I think in terms of what I must buy, not of how it's already prepared, so thanks for that!!

*********

So what is the actual difference between a typical budget line of clear and a high end one? Better abrasion or UV resistance, easier spraying or just better overall clarity?

Do you prefer high build primers or regular primers?

I personally would love a deep purple metallic or pearl, though if I understand correctly, purples and reds don't cover well and are usually tricoat? I don't understand if that means spraying the same tinted pearlized translucent multiple times or if it means layering multiple shades. Can you get a metallic or pearlized blue in bc/cc without a lot of extra hassle?

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

Better clears say they have better UV resistance, like Deltron clears say they have a lifetime warranty for UV resistance, some have 8 year warranties and some have none. Some really good clears essentially say two coats and you're good, now with a PPG Omni I typically go 3 coats to get that extra UV resistance also because I know I am going to wetsand which will take a layer off. However some people naturally lay heavier coats, which would be me LOL. I did a friends Ford Truck bed about 5 years ago with Omni Plus clear, now his truck is black, sits outside in Phoenix AZ sun and heat and is still doing well.

Now as for clarity I have seen super cheap clears like $50 a gallon clears look a bit dull but I just shot Deltron DC2000 which was like $100 a court and also a PPG Omni Plus clear which is like $30 a quart and the shine is no difference to me whatsoever. Now of course the UV protection for Deltron is lifetime warranty and will probably hold up better over time but most people don't keep their car forever or like me I have a black Civic that sits in my garage so it's pretty protected.

r_kage

^^This is really helpful information. Until I go to a paint shop, I don't really know what things cost (these paint companies like to keep that info hidden from public view) and I didn't know that you could get good clear for $30/quart. I always see figures in the hundreds, so I really was worried about overspending on paint to the tune of hundreds of dollars if I didn't narrow this down.

Calculating can help me at least narrow a few things down before I go to a paint shop. The less you know, the more likely you just end up going with whatever the paint sales person suggests. So I looked at a couple of data sheets and for example:
The sheet for DBU basecoat says:
Sq. Ft. Coverage / US Gallon 224-321
(1 mil at 100% transfer efficiency)
^^It also says coats should be .5 mil--this is after curing? So does this mean 2 coats could theoretically yield 224-321 sq feet at 100% transfer efficiency?
Do air guns or spray systems rate spray efficiency so there is some basis of estimation, where 50% efficiency means you buy twice as much and then buy x% extra over that for operator variables and errors? THEN read reviews about what covers better and is durable, look at a few options to see what's acceptable, then figure what's less expensive per square foot finished with all coats down taking into consideration waste and what you might want left over...
For measuring thickness, does one use a micrometer on a finished coat?

Don't worry, I'm not going to run out and buy up a bunch of paint based on a few calculations, but if I can narrow a few things down, I will get a quart to mess around with, painting other things in the shop than can use painting such as my tool cabinet, but ideally I want to be practicing within the same line I hope to use.

I will also be willing to PAY EXTRA for formulations that are less likely to result in runs or easier to touch up if I screw up. As mentioned, I would like some kind of metallic or pearl, which I've read the horror stories, hence the practice.

Thank you for helping me sort things out!!

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

Sure NP, for example I just sprayed a 2015 Acura TLX hood and bumper and was able to do it with a pint of base which reduced is a quart. I also used less than a quart of clear. As for runs the main thing is not loading too much too quick. It doesn't matter if you use $1000 dollar clear or $50 clear if you load it to fast it will run. here is a little tip on what I do, I get a piece of small metal and before I shoot a coat of clear I spray a coat on the piece of metal and then shoot the part, usually you have a 5 to 7 minute flash depending on the clear used but an easy test is to touch the piece of metal you sprayed. When you do this it is either wet, you get little spider webs or its almost dry leaving a finger print. You want to have the little spider webs which means its no too wet but not too dry and ready for another coat. I do this each time before a coat of clear which helps me estimate.

As far as good guns I use an Iwata LPH400 for my base gun and an Iwata W400 for clear.