tonesdef

can i keep and use my chipped ecu or should i just stick with the jdm one that came with the motor


Modified by tonesdef at 12:51 AM 7/17/2003

Katman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tonesdef &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can i keep and use my shipped ecu or should i just stick with the jdm one that came with the motor</TD></TR></TABLE>

you can use either...the small problem with the H22/P13 ecu is the EGR check engine light. Although, I think the way to fix that is buy using/connecting the EGR back on that comes on all 92-95 SOHC engines (on backside of int. manifold).

Jonathan_ED3

why not just run a chipped p72?

Katman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jonathan_EH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why not just run a chipped p72?</TD></TR></TABLE>

he could do that too, but he didn't ask a word about a P72 ecu, and I don't think he has one from the sound of it.

poison

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tonesdef &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can i keep and use my chipped ecu or should i just stick with the jdm one that came with the motor
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes you can. You can use the stock P13 ECU. It's just if you hook up EGR which is a pain in the ***.

Chipped P28 will do nice, though. For chipped or even stock P72, that does better than the both of 'em.

ELUD THS

id run the p72

Jonathan_ED3

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Katman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

he could do that too, but he didn't ask a word about a P72 ecu, and I don't think he has one from the sound of it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well that's true. I just don't see why everybody likes to run chipped p28's so much?

I guess cuz you can get them so cheap?

Katman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jonathan_EH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well that's true. I just don't see why everybody likes to run chipped p28's so much?

I guess cuz you can get them so cheap? </TD></TR></TABLE>

lol...seems like you got something against P28's! jk

yeah, they are cheaper to get vs. a P72 ecu.

Newman

Running a chipped P28 (like a Mugen, Skunk2, JUN, Vision , RPT, etc) made for a B-series motor doesn't really run too well on a H22 Civic. I've tried all of those setups and all of them lack the low end torque/power/feel as what a stock P13 provides. VTEC is set too high, but the feel/pull in VTEC is about the same as a Spoon P13, just engages later. Unless you have a specific P28 program for the H22 (like a Hondata setup with Prelude Type S settings, like I have on my H22A EK), then it's recommended to stay P13 and get a Spoon program if you want a little something extra.

eg:R

i have ran all three ecu, p13s(spoon), p28(mugen race), p72(custom h22 program), some has said that the stock p72 ran better than both p28 chip and p13 chip, that is not true, it is true about what Newman said about the lack of low end torque on the p28 chip b-series, now i am running the custom chip p72, but it feels the same, will need to dyno again to see if it improves better tham the p28chip or p13chip,

Jason kiDD

The problem with running a B-series program on an h-engine is that they are setup differently. If I remember correctly the b-series engines vtec engages first then secondaries open later compared to the lude which is opposite. So that is why if feels to most like they lose low end torque.. My p28 that I am using now pulls way better than the p13 I had before, however it was never chipped with the Spoon program for comparison..

My 2 cents.

Scott - 93HB Si

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by poison &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes you can. You can use the stock P13 ECU. It's just if you hook up EGR which is a pain in the ***.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why is it a pain in the *** to hook up? Isn't it only 3 wires?

eg:R

what program are you running in your p28? i was thinking that it is better off to disable my iab when using my p72 custom h22 spec's, because the iab opens at 6k, that is way to late, think that is better

Jason kiDD

It would be better off to just get a h22 program for the p28. Because even though you disconnect the IAB's vtec is still coming in too low on the stock p72 and even most chipped ones.

I am running a AG engineering program which has vtec set @ 4.8k rpm and a 8.5 rev limit. And I will be using a vtec controller to bump the crossover to about 5.2k shortly..

poison

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Scott - 93HB Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Why is it a pain in the *** to hook up? Isn't it only 3 wires?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

It is 5 wires. Not really a major pain in the ***. Just the fact that vacuum lines, wires and all that to get to work properly is just not worth it unless it's entirely necessary to hook it up. Most of the time it's removed or a chip gets rid of it, so it just sits there with no function in the first place.

eg:R

so running the h22 program in a p28 will be better than the p72 w/h22 program, have you or anyone try dyno the difference in the h22program on the p28 to any ecu with chips upgrade? i was thinking of connecting the iab to my vtec, so when vtec kick my iab will also open, you think this will be a great ideal? i have dyno my car using a p13 and a p28(both chiped), the p13 do have more tq. , hp seem to be the same,

Jason kiDD

I dont think there is a better perse. They are both ODB I computers one just controls the IAB's, set by the actual ECU, and the other doesnt. It all depends on what program is used and if it is tuned to the particular engine..

The only reason why I strayed from the p72 is that it is more expensive and there are few drop in programs with prelude specs that are proven to work. But either one should get the job done once setup right..

The problem comes in when people try to use b-series programs on their lude engines.. Which you find mostly with the p72.

Katman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jacklee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so running the h22 program in a p28 will be better than the p72 w/h22 program, have you or anyone try dyno the difference in the h22program on the p28 to any ecu with chips upgrade?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can't run an H22 program on a P28 ecu at all. It does not work, nor does a P28 have the capabilities to control the secondary butterflies. The only thing that can be done is mimicking the H22 fuel maps on a P28 ecu, but have fun doing that ****! H22 programming is waaaay funky in comparison to a B-series programming.

Using a P72 ecu w/H22 engine is common as of late, as of course a P72 has the capabilities of operating the 2ndary butters.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i was thinking of connecting the iab to my vtec, so when vtec kick my iab will also open, you think this will be a great ideal? i have dyno my car using a p13 and a p28(both chiped), the p13 do have more tq. , hp seem to be the same, </TD></TR></TABLE>

...you can't go wrong with sticking with the ecu thats designed for your engine

Jason kiDD

I have to disagree. A program is a program. As we know most ODB I ECUs work in the same manner however the only difference is that they may activate or control different sensors. That is why you can use many different ECUs for many different engine types...

So if you have a program that is designed to work on the p28 with prelude specs it CAN work equally or better than a program on any other ECU. Again the only advantage of running a P72 is that the ECU CONTROLS THE IABs within the program.. With the P28 you can have them manually open by simply plugging up the valve to the Intake Manifold and it will operate similar to being controled by the ECU..

Stock for stock Katman is right the p13 is your best choice. Followed by the p72..
Once they are chipped its anyones ballgame..

rocket_R

check out import builder.com the last i check it out they had a dyno comparing the two ecu. the p72 gsr vs. the h22 ecu. the p72 was the best choice from the dyno testing.

Katman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jason kiDD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have to disagree. A program is a program. As we know most ODB I ECUs work in the same manner however the only difference is that they may activate or control different sensors. That is why you can use many different ECUs for many different engine types...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

True a program is a program, but, some programs don't work with specific hardware. That's why I said an H22 programmed (eprom) will not work on a P28 ecu. The H22 programming is ill-compatible with the P28 ecu's hardware. A P28 side by side a P28, you can totally see the physical differences. Different board used, different on-board hardware, different programming for either ecu. Now if you had some kind of OBD1 DOHC program that works on a P28 that has been modified to mimmick H22 fuel & timing maps, then yes that will work. but a straight up P13 program placed onto a P28 ecu will not work. I've tried this w/a US & JDM P13 program...always has failed.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jason kiDD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So if you have a program that is designed to work on the p28 with prelude specs it CAN work equally or better than a program on any other ECU.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

True too....
I did mention you *can* mimmick the H22 fuel (& timing) maps but its yet been done, vis a vis, a royal pain in the ***, as the H22 fuel & timing maps are way jumbled in the programming in comparison to an OBD1 VTEC program.

If someone successfully makes a hybrid P13/P28 program.....more power to them

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jason kiDD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Again the only advantage of running a P72 is that the ECU CONTROLS THE IABs within the program.. With the P28 you can have them manually open by simply plugging up the valve to the Intake Manifold and it will operate similar to being controled by the ECU..

Stock for stock Katman is right the p13 is your best choice. Followed by the p72..
Once they are chipped its anyones ballgame..
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I just wanna make it clear (to everyone) that a P28 ecu cannot control the IAB's. Only a P13, P72, or converted P75 LS ecu can control the IAB's, in terms of OBD1 ecu's. Only these 3 ecu's have the special hardware built on them to control the IAB's.

Jason kiDD

In total agreance. I guess we are both saying the same thing. I just wanted to state that I am currently using a chipped P28 that runs better than the stock p13 I had however it indeed does not control the IAB's..

We have since however found a way to manually control them with vacumn from the Intake manifold so the playing field is even again..

Katman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jason kiDD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In total agreance. I guess we are both saying the same thing. I just wanted to state that I am currently using a chipped P28 that runs better than the stock p13 I had however it indeed does not control the IAB's..

We have since however found a way to manually control them with vacumn from the Intake manifold so the playing field is even again..</TD></TR></TABLE>

Newman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Katman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I did mention you *can* mimmick the H22 fuel (& timing) maps but its yet been done, vis a vis, a royal pain in the ***, as the H22 fuel & timing maps are way jumbled in the programming in comparison to an OBD1 VTEC program.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup.... exactly what I have done to my P28.... with the aide of Hondata and the Prelude Type S setttings (with some slight modifications to my likings). Runs smoother and pulls better than a Spoon P13 setup and no where close to a B-series program in a P28.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Katman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If someone successfully makes a hybrid P13/P28 program.....more power to them </TD></TR></TABLE>

Already in the works . Just messing with a few things but almost there.... basically trying to mimic the Type S custom settings that I'm running in my Hondata. But like everyone has already said, totally different from the B-series P28 programs on fuel & timing settings.