gargamel

I have a ls motor in my 95 civic coupe right now. I dont really like the hp that im getting and I also want vtec. should i just get a b16a motor, do ls/vtec, or just try to work with the ls. Is the ls/vtec motor reliable? I need help. I want to make my car faster asap. i really am going toward ls/vtec. I would like your opinions first though.

rioninja

I'm going LS/Vtec myself. Thats the way i would go, because you should be able to do everything while the engine is still in the car. Of course, if you plan on putting a lot of beatings on the engine, you should still take out the block and get the bottom end done.

92Si

I wouldn't go through the trouble of putting a B16a in the car, it is just too heavy for 1.6 liters. If you choose to go LS/VTEC, I would reccommend higher compression pistons (USDM R, USDM delSol) and some ARP rod bolts. That isn't TOO much work... not much more than the work that will be needed to fit the VTEC head on the non-vtec B18a/b block. For LS/VTEC you will also need to get an ECU with the correct program, chipped P28 or something along those lines. Depending on the mileage of the car, you will probably want to replace the water & oil pumps, & thermostat. The extra power will probably also require a new or better clutch.

If you aren't up to the task of all that work, and this is your daily driver, you may want to consider doing some free weight reduction and sticking with the bolt ons, maybe a 50 shot... consider your options and don't let anyone tell you that an LS/VTEC conversion will be cheap and painless, although the fun of troubleshooting is enjoyable to me.

advanracing62

i've always hated the ls-vtec. I really think that if you're going to get a motor it is more respectable to run the whole thing and get killer times. But the other night i raced the ls-vtec and i have to say that i'm really impressed with the torque. Check my other post B16a VS ls-vtec, took him all the way to 3 to start to pass me. And we raced about a mile, it was really the most fun i'v had racing... so if you have the head and the block then ls-vtec would be a good solution for what you are after, the only thing I would do is get a custom tranny for the torque... then you can get off the line faster, but that would be pretty expensive.... But to sum it all up I have a little more respect for the ls-vtec and the torque that it has, it would be a fun car to have.

92Si

Custom tranny?!? I am the first one to admit that I am not a master mechanic or engine builder, but at least think about what you are "reccommending" to someone who is asking for your help. Would you ever need anything with shorter gears than a typeR transmission, or a better LSD? Also saying that a motor with impressive torque didn't catch you until 3rd gear doesn't make any sense, it would either be your car having a lack of top end HP and gearing or that car having more HP. LS/VTEC's do tend to make more torque, but that only means that the particular setup acheives the HP of a GSR closer to 5252...

Just trying to give some thought-out insight...


[Modified by 92Si, 7:33 PM 5/23/2001]

advanracing62

Actually YES you would need something shorter, well in this case with different gears than Type R. You want to utilize the torque in this engine. It's not a revver it's a hp/torque builder. If there wasn't a need for it then why would Quaife make it??? A better LSD yes, less spin and more distributed power makes the car go....... JDM lsd are not that great, i think that they are good for what most people do but in reality something with a better set up of clutches is needed to get into shorter 60' times. I ran against a Quaife using my JDM with pretty much the same engine and he had a better 60' than i . Now for the ls-vtec catching me in 3 well it's true and it's because of the 3 gear being for the torque. It's not a rev gear it's more of a torque gear because it is longer. When it comes to hp vs torque in a race you will see the torque come out and make a difference in 3 than in 1 or 2. I called several people on this one who are very respected tuners because i was shocked that i could take him off line and get caught in 3. Just for comparison i raced a GSR just before that and beat him by 5 cars... I can also say that i know i don't have super top end cause i'm runnin stock cams, not JUN or SPOON or anything like that... stock... JDM Stock... so there you have it. replace the cams in my engine with something more aggressive... hell even type r and i'll take him no ? asked... This is all from one of the tuners at JUN so if you think i'm full of **** then you can call him... so i would say that my info was thought out... maybe more thought out than what the original poster wanted to go into but none the less it takes him to going faster than people in his town and could get him to the quick 8. it's all about going faster than everyone else isn't it???? or maybe it's just me.

92Si

Custom tranny... what gear do you want to finish the 1/4 mile in, 7th? How many gears do you want to spin through off the line, 4? Big power cars that use custom tranny's usually lengthen certain gears to avoid wheelspin and take advantage of time under boost...


Lets not forget the subject at hand here, a Tuner who needs to make a decision about what block and head combination to use, not what custom gears he needs machined for his transmission. You read too many magazines and talk to too many people that write those magazines... Good luck with your setup, watch out for those LS/VTEC's.

Rich

advanracing62

i think you are a little misdirected in your statements. True cars do lenghten some gears to use the torque. Also true you can build a good torquey tranny from a ls and gsr set up. Look the bottom line here is that the tranny you use can make or break the set up. If you put an ls on a b16 you are screwed period. I don't want to tell someone that putting a ls-vtec in their car is going to beat everyone else, it takes tuning and a knowledge of how to set up the car. If the poster wants to make sure that he isn't getting into something that is going to be a pain in the *** he needs people like us to tell him some of the **** you have to do. It's not going to be just plug n play here... it does take a little thought to get things set up right. As for the magazine statement well to tell you the truth i don't think that they are very accurate in what they tell you and i rarely read em. And finally this isn't a place for you to show off and try to be cool putting lame comments for other to read.... if you really want to get into a pissing match then pm me and we can go from there... sorry to the original poster as things sometimes happen like this...

rioninja

Everyone kind of got away from the point here. Gargamel, all your looking for is a little extra HP, correct? These are all valid points about the tranny ratios, but if your planning on keeping this a daily driver i would still consider LS/Vtec. Again, all depends on what kind of abuse your going to give the car. If its only going to see redline once in a while, you don't even have to mess with the the stock LS bottom end (as long as it's still in decent shape of course). But, like was said above, definatly consider upgrading the rod bolts at least if your going to beat on it.


[Modified by RioNinja, 4:38 PM 5/23/2001]

92Si

Gargamel, sorry about this topic turning to ****. I just hate to see another speculation mechanic have you spend a bunch of money where its not needed. If you want to build a fast LS/VTEC, PM me and i'll give you my opinions. If you want pictures or plans of the LS/VTEC project that is sitting next to me, I can send some to you.

Rich

CRX_VTEC

Well..... IMO.... I would just go with the B16. If its for daily driving the B16 would be your most dependable. A JDM B16 with bolt ons should make your car fast enough...depending on your local competion. My brothers HB civic with JDM B16 runs 14.5 with header and intake as the bolt ons all day with street tires. It great on gas and it rides smooth. My CRX has a LS/VTEC fully built runs 12.6 .... but as a daily driver I retard my timing and run premium gas all the time. ANd it still detonates. Its a bit louder with the engine noise too. LS/VTEC "can" be alot of trouble if you dont know what your doing. If you going to go LS/VTEC..... I suggest building the bottom end fully..... whether you plan on running hard or not.

gargamel

did you build your ls/vtec yourself? Thats what im planning in doing with the help of a few mechanics. And what type of bottom end are you pushing....type r pistons or built-up. Im very interested. This is also gonna be my daily driver but i want to go fast. thanx for the advice guys

CRX_VTEC

for a daisly driver I would go with the P30 pistons and a GSR head. You can use your LS rods, but use ARP bolts.