<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Inte9ralove00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No doubt the K is leading us into the future and one day hopefully we can all afford one. Call me what you will but I guess you can't acuse me of jumping on the band wagon. I can think of a lot of different motor combonations that will wipe the floor with your K swaps. That is money for money.. part for part the K is supreme but the K motor and parts are far more expensive. Don't even waste your time arguing this point it's about as logical as comparing a 911 to a Mustang GT. For some people money isn't an object for the other 89% of us money does matter. So until the swap is cost effective we will continue to make our dollars count, even if we can't say we have a K under the hood.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well Ill try lol.

Dropping a k swap that will put down 220 plus whp is expensive yes. But building an h22 to do the same is quite expensive. Dont forget the k swap offers alot of stuff just sitting there in the engine bay...for alot of us weight distribution is important. The k sits so much sweeter than say an h swap. Further back with the trans on the better side.

Generally youll go with a kpro which offers alot of potential for tuning or better yet an aem ems. Now I know these things aint cheap but hell when were talking swap prices this is included in the final tally.

The six speed isnt just an extra gear its the only way to fly in my book...such great gearing

I guess my point is look at what you want and if you may want more later on (and you will).Think about the cost. I yanked a b18c-r to replace with a k becuase after looking at ways to get mad Reliable whp out of the b18 the cost was just as much.

Is the h a great engine? for sure, but hell aint they all : )

 

See there is a problem here. The SMSP dyno i saw was 204whp with and intake header and maybe and ebay chip. Now has anybody paid attention to the "bolt ons" that make it onto the K's.?Almost every single dyno i have seen is either i nicely fabricated header tech, DTR,etc. In other words high quality stuff. The intake of choice is the prototype racing a proven 5-10whp for most any engine. Finally K pro fully programmable engine management that can open up even more power from the nicely breathing bolt combo. Personally if i were to see i nicely fabbed header, a prototype racing intake, and even just an uberdata tuned h22. i would almost bet money the numbers would probably be close if not better. i mean look what the h22 has for off the shelf headers a freakin DC 4-2-1 with a 2inch collector that chokes power and the k20 has the jackson racing a very nicely designed off the shelf affordable header. The two head designs from what i have read are fairly similar, with the addition of roller rockers to the K. Now the mount situation is a problem for both combos as pan clearance is not really a fun thing. The only nice setup i have seen as far as that goes would be tech43 hatch that is gonna have to run a modified hood to raise the engine up. Yes we have all read about how the K sits better, but the H does tilt back and sit further back which should improve traction and i believe some cornerweighting was done at one time or another. The VTC may be a factor in the early stages of your k20 development but seems to dissappear even with a mild bump in camshafts. I'm not lookin to argue this guy just asked for a comparison and i m just tryin to help out as i just went through this whole process. For the me the h22 comes out on top when it comes to a cost/benefit analysis, i guess thats what i get for be an accountant.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BolivianFuego &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Sure the h22 compares to a type S, but now lets talk about the k20R motor, that with just i/h/e tuned on K-Pro from what i have seen have made 215-230whp. </TD></TR></TABLE>

H22 Euro R makes 220HP and 163 torque... and that's in stock form... w/ i/h/e probably more...


Modified by yangja at 1:51 PM 12/2/2004

 

Well as a note I make 225whp in my K20.. I run a $100 RSX-s header which I cut the collector off and welded a new one on so it would clear my steering rack, I run ITB's but before hand I ran a Pod filter and pipe and made 215whp.. I disconnected the VTC when I first started so I can run an ECU we run on the H and B-series cars over here..
So in effect I ran 215whp from a 2litre vtec....
I am getting a DTR header and will be able to state the exact difference it makes over the stock header.. so thats worth waiting for aswell..

 

and a k20a(R) still costs double so . . .

 

k20....a lot better engine, responds a lot better to mods and a lot more aftermarket support then h22....i cant wait to see a fuily built all motor k20.....i think they can push close to 400whp if not more.

 

our generation is screwed as far as avail/affordability on the k-series, but our kids will be stoked!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yangja &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

H22 Euro R makes 220HP and 163 torque... and that's in stock form... w/ i/h/e probably more...


Modified by yangja at 1:51 PM 12/2/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>
I doubt its to the wheels bro. those motors run strong stock, thatat is if you find one stock. about the same as a k20R but real expensive also. Like probably as much as a k20R swap as they are rare as hell. But truthfully after like 210whp it gets real hard to make the h series huff and puff. 230-240 is pushing it with h series's 250 and the beast is done. On a k20 your just scratching the surface with 250 which i might add can probably be made with good tuning a nice header, and probably just some cams. ITRs with that same amount of modding make at the highest 190ishwhp.

 

Does anyone have or know the actual no **** weights for both engines?

 

yea, its been covered, do a search

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BolivianFuego &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Sure the h22 compares to a type S, but now lets talk about the k20R motor, that with just i/h/e tuned on K-Pro from what i have seen have made 215-230whp. This is without any internal work. I have yet to see a h22 motor match a k20 though mod for mod(minus corey's). </TD></TR></TABLE>

The K20's that make 215-230 all have custom headers (SMSP) and intakes with K20 pros.

The 200 whp H22 only have the shitty 4-2-1 greddy style headers, and stock manifolds w/ ebay chips.

My example:
Now I made 235 whp on prosteet's dynojet with a completely stock H22A block, custom header/IM and cams. Of course tuned properly with a Hondata. Now I believe this is a fairer compairison.

 

nice numbers... what cams you running? who made you your header? Im on the market for one

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4gotpasswordAGAIN &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The K20's that make 215-230 all have custom headers (SMSP) and intakes with K20 pros.

The 200 whp H22 only have the shitty 4-2-1 greddy style headers, and stock manifolds w/ ebay chips.

My example:
Now I made 235 whp on prosteet's dynojet with a completely stock H22A block, custom header/IM and cams. Of course tuned properly with a Hondata. Now I believe this is a fairer compairison.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry, but the only h22 header i saw making over the 200 mark or at, have had smsp headers and ran open header tuned on hondata. All the below par headers on stock block h22s only tend to make 180ish or high 170s.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B16B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nice numbers... what cams you running? who made you your header? Im on the market for one</TD></TR></TABLE>

Skunk2, the header is a custom 4-1 AN-R style header. People need to understand that h22's need to breathe to make power! And that goes for any other VTEC motor.

This is no BS guy...

 

newer is better.

older is cheaper.

who cares what is better???

the real question is what can I afford you work from that

 

I don't really have any background with swaps and what not, just a few b16 swaps and 1 b18... all friends of mine, however, doing some research on the new k20's i would say k20 all the way, if money is not a huge problem, it looks like a basically stock, tuned k20 will run around a ~12.5
The numbers I have been seeing and the dropped jaws around the us (and south of the equator) tell me that k20 is the new swap to beat... i just look at those throttle bodies and crap myself... my 2c

 

If I was deciding between K and H series, the H22 would not even be on my list. It would be between the K and an F20b(or maybe a sleeved H22).

Even with factory Honda pistons, FRM sleeves are just terrible.

 

Honda designed the k series because it's much more efficient than the old B series and h22. There's an article i read about lost energy in the head of a b series that they drastically reduced with the k series. the h22 comparrisson isn't an easy one.

The k20 is lighter and responds better to mods than the h22 does. It's got 6 speeds and it's stronger internally than the h22. but as mentioned, it costs much more.

For the money saved, you could get an h22, find one of those rare bellhousing adapters and run a b series tranny. that pretty much evens out the weights. you could also build it but being an engine with a longer stroke, high compression wouldn't be as efficient. I bet the h22 would be nicer to drive around in traffic in though. (but saving money would be the whole point of getting the h22 over the k20). also, the h22 has more torque which is nicer in everyday driving conditions.

I'd vote for the k20 just because it's the future and even though it's only a few years old, there have been huge developments to the k series motors; enough to wow the b series guys who have had 10 years to tinker with that engine. The h22 isn't bad though and is really attractive once you consider you can get one for 1950 from hmotors with the ecu and tranny.

p.s. what's with the still high cost of the b18c5? i thought the price for that motor would definately drop a bit when shops started selling the k20... guess not.

 

i dynoed my h22 Euro R at 195 and 149 torque on pretty much a stock motor and ghetto short ram. This is with the 1.8 inch stock collector or whatever size it is. Total i spend on the swap was $5k which includes mounts and axles and doing my own work. I plan on making a header soon and itbs to see what i can make but i dont think that 230-240 won't be too hard tighout touching the bottom end.

 

You think it would be possible to mate a f20c from the s2000 and a f20b tranny?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SwissChEz82 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You think it would be possible to mate a f20c from the s2000 and a f20b tranny?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, they rotate in opposite directions.

 

That sucks.

 

Quote, originally posted by SOHCZCHatch »
what a newbie someone tell him to go to best buy VtecH NO H BIOTCH OR HYPHEN NEWB K20 ALL THE WAY

you could tell this guy is a DUMB ****!!!!

if someone ask you a nice question you should give him atleast a descent answer!!
not cool

 

h22