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Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

 
Old 07-14-2016, 11:53 AM
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Default Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

Hey everyone,
I have been looking into why my car is not running correctly for a long time!! I have searched to the best of my knowledge on this site and have a binder full of print outs from forums explaining what they think it might be. I have hit a stalemate and am desperate for someone to perhaps know what is wrong…here is what I have going on.

I have a 1999 Honda Civic EK. A while back I decided to swap out my D16y8 for a JDM H22a. I bought the swap from a local guy near me and it came with the engine, transmission, mounts, wire harness (99 EK harness that he had already converted for the swap (running Obd1 injectors with resistor box)), Obd2b to Obd1 jumper harness, and P13 ECU. I installed the engine completely and had it running great for about a month when suddenly it all went downhill……here is my problem.

When I first get in the car and go to start the engine while it is completely cold it will turn over and rev up like it is going to run but then it will bog down to where the engine almost stalls out (car shakes like crazy) but will suddenly jump back up to about 1000 RPM and then bog down again to almost stalling out. If I attempt to press the gas it putters like hell and barely moves up in RPM (basically making the bogging effect worse). I can feather the gas and get the RPMs up to around 2500 – 3000 and it will stop puttering but as soon as I let off the gas it bogs back down to same issue. The car will run like this for about 3 – 5 minutes until the engine warms up (depending on weather). Once the engine warms up you can literally hear it “kick into” normal running mode. It does not putter when I press the gas. Idle is normal and does not fluctuate. I can drive the car around town and never have an issue. If I happen to park the car for a little while and start again, as long as the engine is still warm, no issue. Only when the engine is cold does this happen. I have done the following to attempt a fix:

- Cleaned IACV
- Cleaned FITV and tightened white plastic screw all the way then one full turn back
- Replaced IAT
- Checked all vacuum lines to the best of my knowledge
o Only one not connected is the one on top of the Throttle Body that would go to charcoal canister
o Two side by side on the back of Intake Manifold that would go to purge and charcoal canister are tied together.
- Not throwing any codes
- Also I do not have an EGR. The engine came without it and a block off plate in its place. There is not even a sensor if I wanted to put it on. I thought with the P13 it required EGR and I should be getting a CEL, but I am not.

I do not know what else to do and am tired of the car running so shitty every time I first sit in it and having to wait….there has to be something. Please any advice would be appreciated.

Last edited by Hudnutz; 07-17-2016 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 07-18-2016, 07:04 AM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

bump...
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Old 07-22-2016, 07:21 AM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

bump....anyone??
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Old 07-22-2016, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

My guess would be fuel related & number 1 on my list would be the FPR "fuel pressure regulator" going out of spec on cold starts but coming into spec after the heat comes up under the hood.
Don't know what all you have tried but if the FPR is original or an aftermarket unit I would swap it out & see what happens, maybe grab one off a used car.
Have ran into this more than a few times over the years on various vehicles with the same symptoms.

You can do a fuel pressure test when it's cold & then again when hot by simply unplugging the FPR vacuum hose & pinching it off so it doesn't leak vacuum while testing it & see if passes the fuel pressure test both ways.
If it varies by only a few lbs. of pressure I'd swap it out.

Last edited by Dr. Mike; 07-23-2016 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 11-16-2016, 04:16 AM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

Hello everyone, sorry it took so long to respond but I was out of town on travel. I did happen to do the test with the existing FPR which came back pressure was fine.....and then I purchased a new stock one just for giggles and the problem is still there after install. I have a gauge on the fuel filter and my pressure was at 37 psi for both test (which from the manual should be fine). On both test I can pull the vacuum line off the FPR then pinch and the bogging idle will go away, making it seem like the car is running correctly, but when I give it throttle the bogging comes right back until I let off the throttle.

Does anyone else have any suggestions?? I am about to throw the towel in......
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Old 11-16-2016, 05:28 AM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

So when you start the car cold, have you actually tested to see where the air is flowing through the IACV ports in the throttle body? I am going to guess that although you cleaned that valve, it may be bad.
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Old 11-17-2016, 05:13 AM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

I went home after work yesterday and started the car. Like normal when cold the idle is crap and engine bogs when you give throttle. When I looked inside the TB the top hole (IAVC) has super suction. If I put my finger on it the car's RPM drops so low that it seems like it is about to die. The bottom hole (FITV) barely has any suction on it. Once the car warms up and starts running correctly as it should the top hole still has super suction, and the bottom hole still has almost no suction.

I am not sure if this proves that the IACV is bad.......it was very dark by this time so I did not do the Ohm test to see if it was bad that way.
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Old 12-05-2016, 04:54 AM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

Hello everyone,

Come to find out that the IACV was indeed bad. I replaced the IACV (new) and it sort or fixed the issue and sort of didn't. After the new IACV was installed I can start the car and it turns on and idles exactly how it should. When I first did it I was like YAYAA.....fixed the problem.....but it didn't. Even though the car is now idling and running as it should when it is started (not bogging down); when I attempt to give it gas the car still stutters like it is misfiring. It will not make the car bog out like before just will misfire/stutter like hell. I can rev the car up and once past 2500 - 3000 RPM it will stop (or I simply can't tell). It will continue to do this still till the car warms up like before. I will say since the new IACV was installed it does warm up and start running correctly much quicker than before, but the stuttering when cold and giving gas is still there.....I thought now it maybe a bad spark or injector but the car would not start running correctly after a few minutes if that was the issue. I would assume that would continue the entire time. I am not getting an codes either.

Any suggestions??
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Old 12-06-2016, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

Double check your FITV maybe? Seems like all these symptoms are happening while your car is on 'fast idle' while reaching operating temp. What's that white screw you described playing with?
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Old 12-07-2016, 12:39 AM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

Do yourself a favor and just delete those two valves and be done with it
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Old 12-09-2016, 04:59 AM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

Originally Posted by Dorkenheimer View Post
Double check your FITV maybe? Seems like all these symptoms are happening while your car is on 'fast idle' while reaching operating temp. What's that white screw you described playing with?
I checked the ports in the throttle body for the FITV. When the car is warming up there is very little to no suction coming thru the vacuum hole. Once the car warms up there is still the same amount of suction. This could mean the thermostat in the FITV is bad and the valve is not moving. The only thing is that the FITV from what I know would only affect my surging idle while warming up. Since I replaced the IACV the idle is fine and not surging at all. The car starts bogging though when I give it gas. I would not think this would be an FITV issue since that is used to let more air in while at idle, and when I give it gas the TB opens letting in all the air I should need. ** Also the white screw in the FITV is the outside of the plunger used to open and close the valve. Over time they will come loose and you can screw then back in**

I was reading another forum which a guy did an H22 swap in his EK and was having the exact same issue as I am with the bogging. Someone replied stating that theirs was doing the same and it ended up being the fuel pump in the EK. He said he installed a 255lph and the problem went away. Does this make any sense?? Maybe the stock fuel pump in the EK does not build enough pressure at first and that is why it bogs when I give it gas in the beginning till the pressure builds enough?? I have a FPG on the Fuel Filter and it stays at a solid 37 psi when I first start.
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Old 12-10-2016, 11:51 AM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

what is your base idle set at (this the idle with a warm engine and iacv unplugged)?
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:43 AM
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Icon4 Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

Hello everyone I am back and finally had time to work on the engine some more. Bad news though. When I first installed the new IACV a while back it made my bouncing idle go away but bogging/misfire issue when giving throttle was still there. When I started the car this week the bouncing idle is back. The car is running exactly how it was in the beginning. I had a few guys suggest somethings and these are the other options I have tried this week:

- Tested the TPS to see if bad. At idle it was at .54V and at WOT it was at 4.49V. So I believe that is ok.
- Checked the ohms of the ECT. When cold I was at 5000 ohms.....at running temp (fan turned on) I was at 600 ohm. This seems reasonable but I may be wrong.

Questions I have now:

- Inside the throttle body there are the two holes...top is IACV and bottom is FITV. When I start the engine cold (not ran all day) the hole for the FITV is barely sucking any air at all. If I cover the FITV hole the idle will drop a little like it wants to stall but doesn't. The IACV hole on the other hand is sucking a TON of air. I mean I can stand 3 feet away from the car and hear the whistle coming from the IACV hole where it is sucking so much air. If I put my finger on that hole the engine instantly stalls out. I thought that the FITV controlled the airflow when the engine was cold and then the IACV when at running temp. Why is the IACV sucking more air?? Also when the car is warm (fan turned on) both holes seem to still be sucking the same amount of air. One thing I did get out of this is that since the car stalls when I block the hole sucking the only air into the engine when at cold idle that means I don't have any vacuum leaks. If so the engine should not completely die....or is that incorrect.

- Also my injectors are clicking loud. I don't mean super loud but loud enough that you can hear it fine from the front of the vehicle. I have read that is ok but just wanted to make sure.

Originally Posted by v4lu3s View Post
what is your base idle set at (this the idle with a warm engine and iacv unplugged)?
When the engine is warm (running temp) and everything is running as should my idle is at 1000 RPM. I did this test and when I unplugged the IACV the idle went to 1100 or 1200 RPM and stayed there. Of course CEL came on. I have read that it should have dropped to around 500 - 750 RPM. Does this mean I should loosen my throttle cable or turn back the idle screw??

So in the end I am still at square one with the car and do not know what is wrong STILL.....please any suggestions would be great.
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Old 01-05-2017, 05:08 AM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

Another thing I would like to note is that I am using a throttle body with the map attached (not on firewall so an i believe OBD2 throttle body) and I am running a 079800-4250 map sensor that is for 97-01 OBD2 H22. Would this be an issue?? I cannot find a definitive answer online to what Map sensor I am supposed to be using. The OBD1 map will not fit on the throttle body. I would have to get an OBD1 throttle body, move the Map to the firewall and run vacuum over.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:31 AM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

Bump.....
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Old 01-13-2017, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

I wasnt happy with the values I got off my ECT when I ohmed it out so I decided to just buy a new one since they are pretty cheap. This (like the IACV) made the jumpy idle completely go away when I installed, but there is still the bogging/misfiring when you press the throttle.

also another note when I unplug the vacuum going to the IM from the FPR the idle goes WAY UP and the engine seems so run better. If I put my finger on the vacuum port on the IM the idle drops back to normal but the bogging/misfiring almost completely goes away. Would this have anything to do with my issue. I am really reaching at this point.

Once the the car is warmed up and running correctly it will still sometimes bog/misfire if I rev up to around 3k RPM, let off the throttle and right when it starts to drop press the throttle again. Only does it if I do that rev up - back off - then instantly rev again.

Anything??
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:08 PM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

Did you ever figure out what your issue was I have an eg with h22 swap and it won't start when it's cold I have to crank on it 50 times before it will start and it idle hunts and bogs out when I try to give it has but after it warms up it runs strong I can't figure it out just wondering if you ever did
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Old 03-28-2019, 12:32 AM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

Y'all both need Hondata S300v3 and a tune. Both of these sound like LEAN conditions on startup and revving.

Best to start from scratch, drop in a wideband o2 sensor from Ballenger Motorsports (AFR500v2) and attach ground to thermostat housing where the ECU ground is. From there, evaluate all engine bay grounds, bleed coolant properly, run the correct spark plugs/gap for your given application, adjust throttle body to OEM specs, reset pedal play, etc. A lot of small stuff can add up quickly to this, but for sure, the engine tuning is off if you're smacking a wall at 3k RPM (lean out).

PM me if you have any questions on where to go next.
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Old 03-29-2019, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

3k fuel cut sounds like tps isn't calibrated right. And yes these problems sound like they could easily be tuned out. Cold start fuel corrections can make a huge difference. Chipped ecu or s300 with a good tune and everything about the car will feel better 🤙
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Old 03-29-2019, 11:06 PM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

My car starts better than the OEMs did for this generation... It's all in the tuning.
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Old 04-04-2019, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: Desperate H22 help......bad cold start

Hello everyone,

OP here....the fuel is not cutting out at 3k rpm. It will (when warm) hesitate/misfire when giving throttle....let off....slam throttle again, or from an idle slam the throttle. If I slowly/normally rev up the engine it revs fine (again when warm). When cold the engine runs like crap till at operating temp. Thus this thread.

I installed new TPS and tuned to proper voltage. This did not fix the cold start issue.

I have checked all grounds on the engine

I have bled the coolant multiple times

I have reset the ECU and adjusted the throttle....did not fix the issue.

Running OEM spark plugs that have been gapped properly.

I attached an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and slowly gave it more and more fuel during multiple test to rule out the lean theory. Even giving it as much fuel as it wanted the issue was still there. Took off and installed OEM pressure regulator....no fix.

Adjusted the timing....no fix

Replaced FITV, IACV, TPS, MAP, IAT, ECT, temp sending unit.....no fix.

I dont have the money to purchase a Hondata, nor know anyone that does have one. Closest legit tuning shop I know of is 3.5 hours away unless I have overlooked a oval one. I donít feel like purchasing a new Chipped ECU (money is tight....especially on this car. Named her Curse of Oak Island. Never ending money dumped in....nothing in return haha).

All seriousness. Any other suggestions? I am throwing no codes. I know yíall are correct on needing a tune. I donít understand how it would just suddenly start running like crap though. When I first did the swap it ran great!!! Then one day this happened. Things I did to the engine before this happened are:

- header
- intake
- painted valve cover

thats it. No other mods/changes. Just one day she started running like crap. I would love more than anything to get this engine running properly. Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.








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