RokketRide

What engine to put in a Sol is the best compromise between light weight and more go?

or just get the Sol-VTEC with B16 and be done with it.

daver

well, i'm no sol owner, but i think people are starting to realize the importance of tork and starting to go with displacement like the b20. The sol will weigh about 2500lbs tops with your swap and imo that car is too heavy for the b16 for a daily driver (along with the integra and old si(r).

I plan to get a sol down the road (i'm hooked now, love those cars), and pop my b20 into it, then get a b16 head with the "crummy" automatic cams, upgrade the rod bolts, run a 2" exhaust, rev it to 7200rpms max and call it done.

Awesome low end power, reasonable top end (180hp +/-....?), nice fuel economy and top marks for reliability.

d

stevecockrill

For the hassle, it would be a lot easier to drop in a B16 (or B18) and add a well tuned JRSC. You get the nice low-end grunt and the superb high rev capability of the DOHC VTEC engines.

I have a B16A2 swapped into my SOHC chassis, and can't say I understand where you're coming from about the daily driver issues. I have no problems at all, and like the "split personality" of the B16. Its nice and refined for cruising, and all hell breaks loose at higher rpms. These motors were built to rev, and that's where the car shines.

My 0.02.

Steve

P.S. Check link in sig for more details of my car.......

poison

both are very good set ups

but what if you have a b20/vtec motor with JRSC??

daver

maybe its just my driving style steve. I do a lot of highway and i like to just give the gas pedal a squirt and and fly by. My integra has the stock b18 and its a 5th gear dog (in the 2515lbs car). I havn't driven the b16 powerd cars, but they're telling me that its worse, you have to drop gears and rev it. It fine if you like doing that every time you pass, but for an old guy like me i like quiet, simple and refined- press it and go.

Beyond that, the b20 powered cars seem to be making 160 fly hp anyways, and blowing the doors off the b16 equivalents. 14.4 in an eg hatch?? ...crap man

d

bigmouthcivic

16a2


[Modified by bigmouthcivic, 10:23 PM 7/9/2002]

stevecockrill

Dave.....

Just checked your info.....you're younger than me, ya old guy!!

I agree, your average Honda motor lacks torque, and therefore to make power and be fast, you have to rev the living daylights out of it. A bigger displacement motor will address this, but add a JRSC to the mix and you get the oooomph, and the revving capacity that a lot of people tend to like (even old farts like me!).

At the end of the day its a personal preference choice. I considered the B20 block approach (CRVTEC), but I personally like the rev-happy nature of the motor, and I have reservations about turning the B20 that fast, without building it first.

I'll likely end up with a JRSC, but I plan to use the car as a daily driver (pleasure driving, not on the stupid commute) and auto-X/track events. I'm not really interested in all out straight line speed (hence my mods so far).

A B20 would work fine, but if you can find a del Sol VTEC (DOHC VTEC motor), there's possibly more potential with less effort in building and safeguards. If you just want to run reasonably with excellent reliability, then you do have a couple of choices. Let personal preference be the deciding factor.

HTH!

Steve

daver

Ok, you got me there steve. I took a gamble and lost. I think i'm just used to the g2 integra forum where the average age seems to be about 19, and everyone and there dog are asking about putting the big 160 hp b16 in their heavy old gs's and don't understand the concept of tork. But you're right, everyone has different driving preferences; the b16 is very buildable, where the b20 is not as.

Thats why i like the crvtec idea. Problem is everyone seems to think you have to go all out in the buildup with high cr pistons, typer cams, hondadata...with a 8500rpm redline. If so, then yes, of course the thing needs to be bullet proofed with the girdle, rods, etc.; and thats were the big money start to factor.

I was reading a magazine article the other week about an lsvtec buildup. Interestingly, this "stockish" buildup's dyno graph showed the hp line dropping off shortly after 7000rpms. They said it was due to the "automattic" b16 cams, the type R cams would yield MUCH more power. Well, NO i say, i like the wimpy cams because you dont' have to rev the crap out of the unbuilt block to get the power.

Good power all thru the band plus honda reliablility and fuel economy; and a nice quiet 2" exhaust to make sure that top end chokes off up high, and preserves more punch down low.

Funny thing is, whenever i post this "conservative" crvtec buildup idea, everybody who bothers to respond thinks i'm a nut for wasting good power potential. I figured i must be too old for these customers...

I dont' know much about the JR supercharger, but i happened to read this story today... http://tech.hybridgarage.com/tech/marc-jrsc-after.html ...and it kind of scared me off from it. I know its just one guy with just one charger and perhaps a biased view, but i don't have faith in the longevity of those things and its definately very hard on an engine not built for it (just like increasing a b20 blocks redline by 2000rpms ).

Anyhow, i wish i had your car and i wish you had some pics on your site. The del sol is my favourite car (realistic car), its on my desktop to proove it and i will own one soon. Just as soon a bum like me manages to find a job- i'm too old for this.

d





[Modified by daver, 1:13 AM 7/10/2002]

stevecockrill

Yes, also the intake manifold will have a dramatic effect on the top end power. Personally, I'd rather have the extra there just in case !!

I'll use a subtle sounding exhaust system (no fart cans please), but again, I'd avoid choking off the higher end, even if you rarely use it. Select header profile to maximize the low end grunt.

I think you'll find that a common opinion.....remember most people are attracted to the engines for their high strung nature. Again, my point of view would be to build the motor for your needs, but not to "choke" anything off. I'd choose to built it to be more powerful low down, but that needn't be at the expense of high end performance. Usually, the mindset is to build for top power at 9000rpm+, which does make for an unusuable low end and crap drivability (IMO).

I vascilate on a daily basis on whether to go NA, JRSC or custom turbo. Luckily I can't justify the expense right now...... The JRSC story is horrifying, but I figure that's a one in a million manufacturing defect or something. More often you'll hear about unimpressive dyno numbers from untuned kits, or problems with the "band aid" fixes. I plan to use Hondata all the way. I love it as it stands.

Thanks for the kind words. Keep checking back on the site too. I am in the process of updating the site (its been html forever, and I used to see pics of my installs all over the web, so I decided to "protect" the images with a flash only site. I worked on the gallery this morning in fact. Hopefully by this weekend I'll have something up. Maybe even some brand new pics (car's still shiny despite the rain!!).

You can pick up a used high miles 93 for under $3k these days, but I'd avoid the "S" model, since it doesn't have the creature comforts us old folks like.....mines a 93 Si with a newer B16A2 from a 99 Civic Si(R in Canada, eh).

Steve

CIVIC2k1CLOWN

who gived their gas pedal a "squirt" anyway??

daver

hey now buddy, i'm from a different country so i talk different, eh? Maybe i should have said "i like to slightly depress the gas pedal and squirt by yet another unsuspecting motorist"

While i'm correcting my language, i'd better clarify what i meant by "choking" off the high end power with a smaller exhaust. I didn't mean it as doing it to solely inhibit top end power, per se, just to sacrifice some "extra" top end in favour of retaining more low end tork. The two seem to be mutually exclusive when it comes to exhaust technology.

Also, as we all know its easy to "bolt on" hp but hard to increase the tork, thats because the only thing a lot of mods do is move the tork curve up in the band. ie. the simplest way to make more hp is--> to make the same amount of tork at a higher rpm.

But thats why i like the hybrid vtec head bit. I figure it would be the equivalent of taking the ls head and porting it, put some crower 403s or 404 on, a ported intake manifold, and some bigger valves. Except with the b16 head you get to have all that plus save low end drivability and idle quality, plus its cheaper.

Instead of the tork curve dropping like a brick after 5.5krpms, maybe it'll flatline til 7k... http://www.autocrossing.com/misc/dyn...0z-integra.gif

d

...but what do i know, i'm just a bum.


[Modified by daver, 9:36 PM 7/12/2002]