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[H22A 6th gen civic swap] Need help identifying some things
What title says, recently picked up a H22A (supposed) Redtop swap in a 99 civic sedan.
I wasn't even looking for anything like that, was actually just planning on getting a normal civic for my girlfriend.
But after some talking, because it had a damaged passenger cv axle, he agreed to bring it to me
on a trailer from two states away, for $1,100 after some haggling lol.
I was told it's a redtop (I mean the cover is definitely red), aka it's from a Type S or SiR.
After replacing the axle, finally got to drive it around hard some, shifting is pretty bunk in first/second/third,
but third to fourth and beyond shifts well.
A few minutes of driving resulted in the temp gauge was going all kinds of crazy, went back home with it bobbing up and down
from the middle all the way to red. Opened up the rad and bone dry lol, I've bought plenty of cars,
but for some reason I really just didn't check **** before buying it?? Too excited I suppose...
Did a whole system flush, there was about three cups of dark orange liquid in the whole system lol
Flushed it all well, filled it up correctly, bled for air bubbles, filled the overflow, all that good stuff.
Drove it hard for about 15 minutes and it was good, except the crazy thing was that the rad doesn't have
a rad fan... I checked and it's still wired up and has the connection for one, but just doesn't have a fan?
Yet still doesn't come even close to overheating which is crazy to me.
So the car has (this is only what I was told) 2-Step at like 4,500, VTEC is at 5,100.
2-Step definitely seems to work lol, but driving around I feel a little more power but only closer to ~5,500 onwards,
seeming more like just a normal powerband instead of VTEC. It just doesn't feel as fast as it should.
The engine light works, it stays off until I hit around 3,500-4,000RPMs, then will cut on and stay on the whole time I'm driving
It stays solid, which normally means it's the ECU, or something involving it correct? What should I do first
in trying to solve the problem? just install a new chip running a base map, or get a new ECU to plug in as a test?
Another reason I think it's an ECU based problem is that I'm highly suspicious the car is running
in limp mode. The guy told me it idles high because it has a "Stage 4" clutch (feels super loose,
maybe half if not more than my Stage 1), and the high idle makes it easier to take off.
Well it idles at 1,500, and when I'm going about 50mph+ and let off the gas, it backfires like crazy.
Backfiring happens commonly from running rich doesn't it? And a car in limp mode runs rich right?
This is the imgur album in case anything happens to the photos here, or if you just want to look at that instead.
Block and tranny identification
I was wondering what this hose is for, and if it should be attached to anything?
The intake area
What is this wiring for the tranny for? Should it be wired to anything or is it safe as is?
Wondering why this hose was so bent, or why it has a clip on it for no reason (it does have secure clips for each end of the hose, I felt for them), and what is the unplugged wiring supposed to be for? Is it safe to be undone?
Car was obviously an automatic before the swap, all the gauges work and lights work, but the MPH is off by 5 entirely...
Wondering if all the wiring looks good, has the OBD1 to OBD2 harness and whatnot
ECU Exterior, gave me a chuckle that it is labelled with a sticker that says "Mini Me". I better not be running a tune for a D16Y8 head on a D15B7, what the heck...
Seemingly the only identification on the ECU, nothing else was on it
Re: [H22A ?Redtop? 6th gen swap] Need help identifying some things
That doesn't look like a true Type-S or Euro-R engine to me. That valve cover is red, sure, but that's not factory paint. The block stamp doesn't mean much. Even the basic JDM H22s are just stamped H22A. That intake manifold is also not a Type-S or Euro-R piece. Looks like a standard OBD1 H22 upper plenum at least. The transmission is from a USDM 5th gen Prelude base model. Not the LSD equipped variant that came with the Type-S/Euro-R engines. The only way to tell if the engine is really a true Type-S/Euro-R would be to either pull and measure the VTEC cam lobes or put a borescope into the bores and look at the pistons.
The extra 2 wire plug on the transmission is for the reverse lights. You can wire them into the factory reverse light wiring if you want them. The polarity does not matter.
That kinked up hose behind the intake looks to be a very badly implemented heater hose.
Watch out for that fuel rail, they're known to leak.
The ECU you have doesn't really matter since it's chipped. What's on the chip does matter. And there's no telling what's on it. The chip contains all the information the ECU uses to run the engine. I doubt the car was ever properly tuned and is likely running on some random calibration which could potentially cause engine damage if you continue to drive it. I would contact a reputable company like Phearable or Xenocron and purchase an actual decent basemap so you know what's in the car. Then you can sort out any other issues and go from there. You should also be looking at getting a street tune at minimum otherwise the car is unlikely to ever run/drive completely 100% like it should.
Looks like a janky, hacked up swap which is why you got it so cheap. Somebody was probably tired of messing with it. A true Euro-R/Type-S engine is worth $1000-1500 just on it's own, $2500+ with matching transmission.
Edit: You should also be purchasing and installing a radiator fan before driving it. It needs one regardless of what the stock temp gauge said. From my experience the gauges stay around halfway until 250F+ which is already entering dangerous territory.
Re: [H22A ?Redtop? 6th gen swap] Need help identifying some things
Originally Posted by Aradin
That doesn't look like a true Type-S or Euro-R engine to me. That valve cover is red, sure, but that's not factory paint. The block stamp doesn't mean much. Even the basic JDM H22s are just stamped H22A. That intake manifold is also not a Type-S or Euro-R piece. Looks like a standard OBD1 H22 upper plenum at least. The transmission is from a USDM 5th gen Prelude base model. Not the LSD equipped variant that came with the Type-S/Euro-R engines. The only way to tell if the engine is really a true Type-S/Euro-R would be to either pull and measure the VTEC cam lobes or put a borescope into the bores and look at the pistons.
The extra 2 wire plug on the transmission is for the reverse lights. You can wire them into the factory reverse light wiring if you want them. The polarity does not matter.
That kinked up hose behind the intake looks to be a very badly implemented heater hose.
Watch out for that fuel rail, they're known to leak.
The ECU you have doesn't really matter since it's chipped. What's on the chip does matter. And there's no telling what's on it. The chip contains all the information the ECU uses to run the engine. I doubt the car was ever properly tuned and is likely running on some random calibration which could potentially cause engine damage if you continue to drive it. I would contact a reputable company like Phearable or Xenocron and purchase an actual decent basemap so you know what's in the car. Then you can sort out any other issues and go from there. You should also be looking at getting a street tune at minimum otherwise the car is unlikely to ever run/drive completely 100% like it should.
Looks like a janky, hacked up swap which is why you got it so cheap. Somebody was probably tired of messing with it. A true Euro-R/Type-S engine is worth $1000-1500 just on it's own, $2500+ with matching transmission.
This is more or less what I suspected and was ready for, I just needed some help on trying to decide where to move forward with this because this is all my hobby is lol
I've got the time and money, just needed some help and wondered where I should begin. Never heard of Phearable or Xenocron but I'll look into it, thank you.
Would I send them my ECU or chip from it, or would they simply send me a brand new chip to put in the ECU?
I would like to hook up the reverse lights, where would the rest of the wiring that needs to be connected located, never done much wiring-wise.
Do you think the hose could pose a legitimate problem enough to where I should try to replace it? As well as the fuel rail?
And no worries, after realizing it was probably running in limp mode I have not driven it since.
What's the difference in what you said between a base map and street tune. Base map you mean just a close guesstimate as to what
the car would need, and a street tune being a tune developed while running on a dyno?
Re: [H22A ?Redtop? 6th gen swap] Need help identifying some things
Since your ECU is already chipped you can just purchase a chip with a proper basemap and they will ship it out to you which you can swap into your ECU. Personally I have used Xenocron before and they're always very helpful and thorough.
The wiring for the reverse lights is likely in the center console/shifter area. I'm not intricately familiar with the H swap into this chassis. You will probably have to do some digging for wiring diagrams or a How-To somewhere.
I would replace the hose or at least cut it down until it wasn't kinked like that. It could definitely cause some issues like it is. If the fuel rail isn't leaking currently, I would leave it and just check for leaks or residue every oil change.
A base map is just as the name implies. It is a base on which you then fine tune. It's not designed or intended to be driven on daily. Just to get the car started to check for issues then to take it for a tune. A street tune is done on the street and is usually less finely tuned but can work for most basic setups and is less expensive. A dyno tune is more accurate and you get your final power numbers to brag about but it's also more expensive and may not be available to you depending on your location.
Re: [H22A ?Redtop? 6th gen swap] Need help identifying some things
I looked at the high res photos in the imgur album and can confirm that it is not a Type-S or Euro-R engine. The head is stamped P13 which is the basic casting for the regular JDM H22s. A Type-S or Euro-R engine would have a PDE stamped head which is a higher flowing head/casting.
Re: [H22A ?Redtop? 6th gen swap] Need help identifying some things
Originally Posted by Aradin
Since your ECU is already chipped you can just purchase a chip with a proper basemap and they will ship it out to you which you can swap into your ECU. Personally I have used Xenocron before and they're always very helpful and thorough.
The wiring for the reverse lights is likely in the center console/shifter area. I'm not intricately familiar with the H swap into this chassis. You will probably have to do some digging for wiring diagrams or a How-To somewhere.
I would replace the hose or at least cut it down until it wasn't kinked like that. It could definitely cause some issues like it is. If the fuel rail isn't leaking currently, I would leave it and just check for leaks or residue every oil change.
A base map is just as the name implies. It is a base on which you then fine tune. It's not designed or intended to be driven on daily. Just to get the car started to check for issues then to take it for a tune. A street tune is done on the street and is usually less finely tuned but can work for most basic setups and is less expensive. A dyno tune is more accurate and you get your final power numbers to brag about but it's also more expensive and may not be available to you depending on your location.
Alright I've gone ahead and ordered a stock chip for the H22A from them. I'll look for the wiring, thank you.
How should I attempt to cut the hose, any special tool needed or can I just go at it with scissors / blade / saw?
Last edited by Rywen; 06-19-2018 at 02:22 PM.
Reason: Figured out where stamp was lol
Re: [H22A ?Redtop? 6th gen swap] Need help identifying some things
I usually just use a razor blade for hose like that. Just use your best judgement and get it as kink-free as you can. It looks like somebody joined 2 pieces of hose together with a union in the picture. If it were me I would probably take it all off and go see if I could find something that fit better at a parts store.
Re: [H22A ?Redtop? 6th gen swap] Need help identifying some things
Originally Posted by Aradin
I usually just use a razor blade for hose like that. Just use your best judgement and get it as kink-free as you can. It looks like somebody joined 2 pieces of hose together with a union in the picture. If it were me I would probably take it all off and go see if I could find something that fit better at a parts store.
Alright I'll see what I can do about it, thanks for your help brother
Re: [H22A ?Redtop? 6th gen swap] Need help identifying some things
So I got a basemap from Xenocron, and after installing it, the car now idles at a little over 2,000RPMs vs the 1,600RPMs it did with the previous chip. So do some googling, everybody says to clean the FITV, alright.
Well I remove the intake, and check out the TB, aaaand... it doesn’t even have a FITV? Like at all, it’s not that it was bypassed and replaced with a block etc, it simply doesn’t have an FITV whatsoever?
Then I wasn’t sure if I even had an H22 IM at all, but the H23 doesn’t fit onto an H22. So I have no idea what this TB is from, and now am really unsure about what to do about the extremely high idle.
After passing a certain RPM, the car still does backfire quite a lot once the Engine light comes on, before that it doesn’t backfire at all like it used to on the old map. So I can cruise at like 60 and let off the gas, and if the light is off I’m fine, but if it’s on it backfires.
Should I mess with the distributor and try and see what happens if I try retarding it some? The only thing is, is that it doesn’t seem to be misfiring, so I don’t want to butcher it even further.
Also, that fuel rail, for the farthest right injector, if you’re looking from the bumper inwards, is definitely leaking. The three left-most intake manifold tube things are nice and silver, but the farthest right one is covered and stained in a yellow color lol
Theres also a rad leak somewhere... I topped off the reservoir twice now, and both times when I’ll check it later again it’s completely empty...
Re: [H22A ?Redtop? 6th gen swap] Need help identifying some things
That's an aftermarket throttle body which is why it doesn't have a FITV. I don't see branding on it anywhere so I can't say for sure what it is. Possibly an OmniPower. It also looks like your throttle cable or throttle stop screw is adjusted incorrectly, which could be causing your high idle. If you look closely at the photo you posted there's a gap at the top of the throttle plate that is likely allowing too much air in. Ideally it should be adjusted so that it is tight enough to completely seal but not tight enough to stick in light throttle scenarios.
The backfiring is more likely to be caused by excessively retarded timing. You could try advancing the distributor and seeing if it helps. Just no WOT until it's running right and tuned. It's also possible you could have an exhaust leak somewhere that's pulling in air when you decel and causing some small combustion in the exhaust which typically isn't harmful.
Sounds like you do need to replace that fuel rail after all. You may get lucky and just be able to replace the o-rings if you feel like trying that. Just make sure to take off the gas cap before working on the fuel system.
Just for the hell of it, do a compression test if you can. The ECU should have stored the codes that it's throwing so check those as well. You could have a faulty sensor or something wired incorrectly.
Re: [H22A ?Redtop? 6th gen swap] Need help identifying some things
It also appears that you are using the wrong style T/B gasket... it is exposed on the lower right corner and the carbon build up that is normally associated with a FITV passage there is a solid indicator of a vacuum leak.
06-18-2018, 02:57 PM
[H22A 6th gen civic swap] Need help identifying some things
