So my friend has an ap1 s2k and his motor is blown.

How hard is it to put an ap2 in? what needs to be done?

Yes i SEARCHED!

s2k content:

 

im pretty sure you need the ECU and wiring harness from an AP2. i think its easier to just swap in an ap1, sell the car and buy an ap2

 

Car looks great!!!

Also pretty sure you need the ECU & wiring harness from an AP2 - why not just swap in an AP1 again?? 9000 > 8400

 

All you need is the ECU, wiring harness and motor provided you are swapping in a pre DBW motor.

 

Wrong. You need an ap2 engine. You can use, and I recommend an ap1 ecu. Use an 00-01 tho because it runs excessively rich and will accomodate the extra displacement. If it's an 02-03 then I'll trade you . People on s2ki are running ap1 ecus revving to 9k on f22's all day.

 

omfg...wow.

Yay, decresed engine life for about 2 more peak hp

 

Totally decreased.. The f22 has the same piston speed as the f20 at about 8600 rpms. It gives you the ability to rev the motor further. Whether you do it as often as you do the f20 is up to you. F22's running the ap1 ecu have not had failures.

 

I would still run the ap2ecu just swap in an f20 and don't worry about **** it would make more sense to swap the trannys

 

how do you figure that? Show me some math that backs up this argument. because my math says your WRONG. Let's compare, shall we?


Modified by Techno Tonis at 9:22 AM 11/13/2008

 

Wrong... ? Dude get outta here with your shitty advise. Just because some guy on s2ki did it does not mean it's OK, or that you should recommend it to someone else.

 

I love the picture. I'm happy to see people doing things right for once. Can you imagine if that barrel wasn't there? People would be tossing trash all over the ground.

tis a real shame

 

Hundreds of people by now. The op is obviously going to use his own discretion when it comes to his final setup, thanks to me, he know's that it's been done lots of times with power being made past the f22's stock redline. People have been running this setup for years. Most don't rev past 8600 rpms while some drive them as if they had an f20.. Here's a thread where it's discussed. One person managed to grenade their f22 but was using the setup on a road course and was having issues from the start. You can run a search on s2ki if you want more info.

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/ind...&st=0


Modified by 18psi sohc at 8:34 AM 11/13/2008


Modified by White Smoke at 12:25 PM 11/13/2008

 

Do the math then and show me I'm wrong.

According to SPOON F22@8500rpm = F20@9000rpm (approximately).

http://drive.gtchannel.com/?c=127&a=1503

 

A 95mm crank in a B series engine makes more power with supporting mods. Did Honda design that from the factory? No, probably because they want their motors to last more than 10,000 miles. Will an 2.2 make more power at 9000 rpm? maybe, I have not found a real dyno comparison yet. Would I do it on a stock ap1 ecu, probably not.

 

show us your math...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2.2 pistons and '00 ecu

max recorded rpm 8800
220hp dyno jet, no added power seen over 8000rpm</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hummmmm


Your guess at "hundreds" of users is totally assumed and imo, far fetched. Fact of the matter is no reputable tuner would ever say its OK to run a tune setup for a 2.0 on a 2.2. Even if the motors were otherwise identical which in this case there NOT. Running lean WILL happen and this is a fact. More air and the same amt of fuel = problems. I tune my own cars so I have a pretty good idea of his this all fits together. Add on all the other factors like R/S ratio, retainers, rod bolts, and so many other things we can't know for sure about and you are just asking for trouble.

Again just because someone jumps off a bridge and lives does that mean you recommend others to jump off that same bridge? We appropriate your opinion but don't go telling people there wrong when you are recommend something that has been proven to cause damage in the past. FYI, I posted in that thread in 05.

 

WE need m3bimmerbilly, he is a real tuner.

 

On the next page is a dyno where the a/f is almost identical and the motor is making more power. If you read through the post you also know that the owner knew his car was running lean and continued to push past the recommended rpm. Spoon's head says himself it's the same piston speed at 8500. Honda was more conservative in the ap2's redline than they were in the ap1's.

 

Ive heard of some people using a AP1 ECU in an Ap1. The ap1s do run rich...

 

The 00-01 run richer than any other year because Honda wanted to be on the safe side when they introduced the S. I think you mean the ver.2 ap1 ecu (02-03) right?

 

NO idea, I just heard about Ap2 owners being able to do so. I never looked into it first hand.

 

With Pleasure.

The AP2 has a longer stroke. That's the reason why Honda reduced the rev limit to 8200 RPM. The AP2 will not outlast an AP1 just because of the lower rev limit.

The AP1's pistons are moving at around 82feet/second at 9k RPM.

The AP2 pistons are moving at around 80feet/ second at 8200RPM.

Force can be measured as a velocity change over time (put very simply). Since the AP2's internals are longer, they weigh a bit more. Since both motor's pistons will change directions pretty much instantaneously, the time delta is the same.

Basically, the AP2 has to reverse the velocity of a heavier rotating assembly in the same amount of time. The slower piston speed (aprox. 2 feet/second slower) might make up for it. But i'll bet that the stresses on an AP2's rotating assembly are actually a TINY bit higher than an AP1's rotating assembly.


That's the reason you can rev a motorcyle up to 17k. Small stroke, light internals. Add stroke, and you have to reduce revs if everything else is the same.

The F22C will last much less than an F20C if you rev both motors to 9K.

Again, AP1 piston speeds at 9k = around 82ft/sec.
AP2 piston speeds at 9k = 89.27 ft/sec. 9 more feet per second makes a difference.

The only reason that the F20C MIGHT wear out faster is that 9k RPM against a cylinder wall is still 9k RPM. That's if we're just talking bottom end wear (not the kind you get in prison, though). The cylinder walls are made of FRM, so they wear very slowly, but the AP1 will theoretically wear out the cylinder walls faster.

Example: rub a peice of plastic with sand paper. If you rub faster, the sand paper and plastic will wear out quicker than if you rub slower. 9k RPM is faster than 8200RPM. Same principle.

Fuel consumption at 9k will be higher than at 8200rpm...if all else is the same. The AP2 has more displacement. More displacement = more fuel consumption. This difference is usually negligible between AP1/AP2s, because of engine management, etc. But if you were going all out, throttle to the floor, at 8200RPM, the AP2 is probably consuming just about the same amount of fuel as the AP1 at 9k.

If you want an extreme example. a LS1 will consume much more fuel at 6500RPM than an F20C at 9k. This is because of more cylinders...GM fuel management, power density, etc etc etc. But it's a good illustration of differences.

 

Piston speed of an f22 at 8500 rpm is 83.66 fps.
Piston speed of an f20 at 9000 rpm is 83.16 fps.

Like I said, It's approx. the same.

 

We were looking for the math that showed how off I was..

 

i was going to add that, but toni saved me the trouble. you can't expect a motor with a larger displacement (f22 being a a stroked f20) to do the same as a f20 without any valvetrain mods. i'd say it'd be safe to do so if you had the correct valvetrain mods to support it and management to tune it. but an extra couple hundred of RPM's when the power drops off for a few JDMpoints isn't worth it.

here's another example, once upon a time someone ran 87 octane in an s2000 and didn't have any problems. should you run 87? he did it, why can't you?

ninja edit