Stock, OBD1 converted H22A4 motor, in a 4th gen, w/ AEM CAI and CM flywheel.. Motor was pulled out of a 5th gen at a junkyard, has about 40k on it now..

 

so this header your making will only be for 4th gens

 

damn that thing needs a VAFC

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>so this header your making will only be for 4th gens<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This header can be used for either the 4th or 5th gen cars. It will clear the A/C, P/S and front engine mount. I'm about 95% sure that I can make it clear the front cross member with little or no modification. The header has a 2-1/2" collector and ends in a different place than the stock piece so modification to the B pipe and a 2-1/2" cat will be required. The cat will most likely bolt directly to the collector via a donut type joint and not use a flex pipe, but that may change.

Here is the ground clearance for header #2


"Pictures Deleted"

And ground clearance on header #3


"Pictures Deleted"



Modified by SMSP at 10:58 AM 8/3/2003

 

Your right, it does.. But unfortunally for the East Coast Honda Challenge, they are not allowed, only fuel pressure regs are, which will be on soon..

 

is the car being dynoed your car Corey?

 

yes it is..

 

so all you run is CAI and lightened flywheel...Is this all your car runs in track form. I am sure you are pretty hush hush about your setup..

the honda challenge must be fairly restrictive..

Ho much of the gains do you think is seen from the CAI and flywheel?


[Modified by dsludefosho, 12:32 PM 1/6/2003]

 

I, for one, would be willing to contribute some $ to dynoing the stock manifold. If everyone interested PayPal'd you the money, would you do it?

 

I don't think that would be a problem however I don't use paypal. The exhaust system used on Corey's car is 2-1/2" tubing with a 18" resonator and a 2-1/2" turndown near the end of the tunnel. You guys would just need to determine what you want me to test in the comparo. It could be.

Stock manifold/cat/exhaust vs Corey's set up, or stock manifold and A pipe open vs Corey's. Or if someone is interested in purchasing a full system (engine to tip) We could dyno stock manifold/cat/exhaust vs. header #3 design/2.5" cat/2.5" cat back exhaust. I'll offer a discount to that person for allowing us to use his system in the test.

 

Great looking results. I can't wait until pricing is announced & production gets in full swing on these things. Can we at least assume pricing in the same ballpark as your previous offerings (a grand or so)? Or is there something that would make this header significantly more expensive?
I agree. Shall we make it an official fund drive, with a goal of like $100? I've got $5 I'm willing to throw in the pot right away. Who's setting it up?

I say use a stock manifold & resonator just like Corey's, so the header is the only variable at play. Maybe at some point in the future, we could do a full stock "system" (header, cat, & exhaust) vs. an SMSP system.


[Modified by Daemione, 3:53 PM 1/6/2003]

 

Yes

No, it's stock

Yes

Stock cams/pistons/compression, all specs to be within manufacturer's limits. The engine was purchased from a junk yard and only has had the valve cover removed. The engine compartment still looks like it's from a junk yard car. And some parts of the underside of the car smell like Corey ran over a few piles of s**t on his farm.

You guys really shouldn't get hung up on the numbers of his graph. You could adjust them 50% down or 100% up and it wouldn't matter. What is important are the differences between the power bands of each header. All runs were done at the same dyno. Runs 13 and 16 on the same day, this past Saturday. Run 10 was done back in August when we first tested header #2, but again we are interested in the shape of the curve not so much in the peak numbers.


[Modified by SMSP, 12:58 PM 1/6/2003]

 

my cars exhaust system is bone stock. i might be interested in the whole system deal. ballpark price?

 

fellas, don't get hung up on the numbers game.

many people have already dynoed their numbers and anywhere close to 180whp will not be realized with a usdm motor, those bolt-ons above and no fuel/vtec tuning.

i bet corey's motor would easily be near 190whp+ with an added vafc.

if you have the money, get on the list.
for those asking, this header won't be cheap.

 

That's probably a safe assumption. These will be stainless tubing versus my others which are ceramic coated mild steel so there is more $ in the material cost but that will be somewhat offset by saving on the coating costs. Other added costs would be the use of stainless steel flanges versus cold rolled steel (CRS) as I mentioned previously. CRS is a little more stable when welded vs stainless but will get some surface rust on it after time.

I vote for Corey

I could make an adapter tube to connect the stock manifold to Corey's exhaust. It doesn't matter to me, you guys tell me how you want the test done.

 

being crew cheif I take offense to that

We might be able to find a local person with an exhaust setup that would be willing to let us borrow it for a day, I will look into that

 

I agree that the test should be with the stock manifold/DP and an 18" resonator. As close to Corey's as possible. While you're at it it would be nice to see you test them both with a full cat-back in place, maybe with a high-flow cat, too. How much do you expect dyno time to cost? Surely anyone who is seriously interested in spending ~$1000 for a header can send you $5 towards dyno time.

I think paypal would be the easiest way, unless you can think of another

 

1. You state that these dyno numbers are with a CAI, stock OBDI and a lightened flywheel. WHat about catalytic converter?? IS there one?? Is there an exhaust too?? If so is it a stock exhaust?? If not what size piping is being used from the header back??

2. It almost seems like you are trying to accomplish what Mugen has already done with their 4-2-1 header in all honesty.


[Modified by Ritteri, 5:04 AM 1/7/2003]


[Modified by Ritteri, 5:11 AM 1/7/2003]

 

Huh, me set it up..???

I wish I had known 6 months ago, before I sold my stock and DC headers.. It would probably be easier to find someone w/ a stock setup, and then bolt on the SMSP setup, and go dyno together.. Illusion, would you be interested in coming to VA for some dyno testing? Dyno your stock, then your stock exhaust w/ SMSP header/cat, then a full SMSP setup, including cat back?

 

I would send you my stock catback for free..if you pay shipping.

As you probobly know when doing a scientific experiment you must have every aspect cotrolled, except for the variable. the variable in this case is your header.

If you want to prove your header most effectively, dyno it on a totally stock motor.

 

The header has a 2-1/2"collector and the exhaust system is 2-1/2" tubing with a 18" long resonator and a 2-1/2" turndown near the end of the tunnel. No cat is used since it is a dedicated race vehicle. I'd expect about a 1-2 hp drop with a hi flow cat and don't think a full 2-1/2" exhaust would hurt it much at all.

As for the test, Dyno time runs $***/hr and that is if you are turning the rollers or working on the car. I tested 3 systems earlier in the year on an ITR and only made 14 runs but it cost about $425. So, the time required to make the changes will also be charged.

So with that said, I think one of the following should be choosen.

1. Stock manifold & down pipe open vs mine open, or

2. Stock manifold & down pipe with Corey's current exhaust (adapter needed) vs Corey's current set up, or

3. Stock manifold & down pipe/stock cat/ stock cat back vs my production header, 2-1/2" cat/2-1/2" cat back system, vs a full Mugen system.


Not really. I hope (don't know yet) to build something better. If I can't build anything better than what Mugen has to offer right now I doubt I will sell one header if they are in the Mugen price range.

The Mugen unit looks to be built to bolt up to the stock cat and the cat back system to do the same. If this is true, then the Mugen collector can't be a whole lot different in size than stock, but I could be wrong. If I am wrong then there will probably be a mismatch of tubing IDs at the collector to cat flange. I haven't seen a Mugen header so I don't know for sure. Maybe those who have one can provide some insight.

Since my header utilizes a 2-1/2" collector I will use a 2-1/2" cat and cat back system. The cat back system will use all straight through components with the minimum number of bends. I suspect my header uses different size primaries and secondaries along with different lengths. Just for example my primaries are stepped where the Mugen's are not.

 

I'll have to double check on mine, but the Mugen exit on the header is 57mm which isn't 2.5" but still a lot bigger than most. Though it is still designed to bolt up to a stock cat so it's by far from being optimal. Though it's interesting comparing the differences, the Mugen primaries are much longer than the SMS (from what I can see) header #3. They also extend futher out from the block before making the turn toward (my guess it to make the primaries longer). The secondaries appear to be larger than the Mugen secondaries and a little bit longer. I can't see enough of the collector at the end to compare against the Mugen header. Though David, how much further down the tunnel does the new collector go since I can't see by the images. It doesn't seem too much further than the stock location.

 

Bah! My car was putting down 173.5 SAE whp (183whp actual) with a header and a cat-back with a stock cat-converter. With an AEM CAI, I think I could have been close to 180whp. With a high-flow cat or test pipe as well, I think it would be over 180. And mine is an OBD2 2000 model...

Andrew - who likes to get caught up in numbers



[Modified by aklucsarits, 9:09 AM 1/7/2003]

 

Here are a couple shots from below

"Pictures Deleted"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>They also extend futher out from the block before making the turn toward <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I talked about this in another thread. I made the header that way just out of convenience since it was a test header. The tubes will come out further before making the bend on the production version. I also used $20 formed collectors versus $120 merge collectors. Header #3 was a mild steel header that was only painted on the outside where as the production versions wold be ceramic coated at the least or most likely stainless steel. So with these three "upgrades" to the production version I would expect some additional increases. How much? I don't know, one can't accurately estimate power increases without real testing.

aklucsarits - Do you have any graphs to show a 7+ hp gain from the addition of a CAI and a hi flow cat to a car with a header and cat back already installed? I ask since I've only seen about 6-7 hp gain on an ITR going from a stock set up with a CompTech CAI to a 98 Spec ITR JDM header and 2-1/2" hi flow cat and stock exhaust.

[Modified by SMSP, 7:26 AM 1/7/2003]


Modified by SMSP at 10:59 AM 8/3/2003

 

David, thanks for the shots. I'll have to compare w/ what I have (Mugen) the next time I'm under the car. Though now it seems (I can't remember exaclty where they end) the secondaries are about the same length as the mugen just the collector extends 4" past stock. The next time I dyno I'll be adding a cleaned up IM w/ a Hondata IM gasket. If the dyno shop allows me, I'll also do a before/after with a Carsound hi-flow cat installed as well along with a zeroed out V-AFC to make it more comparable against Corey's setup.