Calling on a all 2-stroke gear heads.
09-01-2003, 02:32 PM
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Calling on a all 2-stroke gear heads.
Is it OK ot use leaded fuel in a 2-stroke engine? It seems as though most high octane fuels are leaded instead of unleaded.
I may get a gas powered scooter and bump up the compression but it would require 110+ octane fuel.
I may get a gas powered scooter and bump up the compression but it would require 110+ octane fuel.
09-01-2003, 06:22 PM
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Re: Calling on a all 2-stroke gear heads. (EKhatch)
the effect of lead is more of an issue with emissions rather than combustion....it does allow for higher octane etc....
however having said that, I do not know what the effect of lead on a 2-stroke engine would be, due to the necessity to mix oil/gas and the probable lack of oil sutible to be mixed with leaded gas (since you havent been able to get leaded in like 3999 years)....
good luck with the search on this, let me/us knwo what you find out!
however having said that, I do not know what the effect of lead on a 2-stroke engine would be, due to the necessity to mix oil/gas and the probable lack of oil sutible to be mixed with leaded gas (since you havent been able to get leaded in like 3999 years)....
good luck with the search on this, let me/us knwo what you find out!
09-02-2003, 10:56 AM
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Re: Calling on a all 2-stroke gear heads. (EKhatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKhatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It seems as though most high octane fuels are leaded instead of unleaded. </TD></TR></TABLE>
The reason for that is b/c lead as an additive is a relatively cheap and easy way to raise the octane rating of gasoline. The use of such high octane gasoline is usually reserved for racing applications and as such the environmental impacts of leaded gasoline is not a concern. Unleaded gasoline of the same octane costs considerably more to create as it resultes in a large amount of sub 87 avg octane rated gasoline that is relatively worthless. I do not know the answer to your first question so I will wait for someone to come along who does.
The reason for that is b/c lead as an additive is a relatively cheap and easy way to raise the octane rating of gasoline. The use of such high octane gasoline is usually reserved for racing applications and as such the environmental impacts of leaded gasoline is not a concern. Unleaded gasoline of the same octane costs considerably more to create as it resultes in a large amount of sub 87 avg octane rated gasoline that is relatively worthless. I do not know the answer to your first question so I will wait for someone to come along who does.
09-02-2003, 01:18 PM
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Re: Calling on a all 2-stroke gear heads. (EKhatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKhatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is it OK ot use leaded fuel in a 2-stroke engine? It seems as though most high octane fuels are leaded instead of unleaded.
I may get a gas powered scooter and bump up the compression but it would require 110+ octane fuel. </TD></TR></TABLE>
You can use leaded fuel in a 2 stroke engine. The lead is there to lubricate things and ultimately to resist detonation which is the mortal enemy of the two stroke world. If you are concerned there are octane aditives that you can shove into fuels that will 'pep' them up or you can use Avgas.
1. Avgas 80/87: this product is used in low compression ratio aircraft engines, contains little or no lead, is red in color, and should not be used in any automotive engine due to a low motor octane number of about 80.
2. Avgas 100/130: this product that can be used in some automotive engines. It has both research and motor octane numbers slightly over 100. Avgas 100/130 is green in color, contains four grams of lead per gallon, and is becoming harder to find.
3. Avgas 100 LL: the LL stands for "low-lead" which means two grams per gallon, low compared to the avgas 100/130 that it was designed to replace. It has research and motor octane numbers very similar to the 100/130 product previously discussed. The color is blue. This product sometimes has a high level of aromatics which can contribute to lazy throttle response and dissatisfaction of the consumer.
4. Avgas 115/145: this product was developed for high performance piston aircraft engines used in world war II and in the Korean war. It is very hard to find anymore due to lack of demand although it is of very high octane quality. The color is purple.
Avgas is less dense than most racing gasolines. Instead of weighing about 6.1 to 6.3 pounds per gallon like racing gasoline, it weighs 5.8 to 5.9 pounds per gallon. The racer must compensate for this by changing to richer (larger) jets in the carburetor when changing from racing gasoline to avgas.
The other major difference is octane quality. Avgas is short on octane compared to most racing gasolines. Many racing engines with "quick" spark advance curves or with no centrifugal advance have more spark advance at low rpm than avgas and some racing gasolines can handle. The result is detonation, especially during caution periods in circle track racing because all of the spark advance is "in", rpm is low, and part throttle air fuel ratios are too lean for the operating conditions. If the driver does not "work" the throttle back and forth, pistons can be "burned" which melts away part of the aluminum piston material. Inadequate octane quality is one of the quickest ways to destroy an engine. Pistons can be severely damaged during one acceleration where detonation is present and the racer may not know what is happening until it is too late.
For maximum performance and power from a racing engine, racing gasoline will normally provide better performance than avgas. Avgas can be a good gasoline for some applications.
End of the day you could go to someting like Elf fuel but then you are paying a substantial amount for it, too much to shove in a scooter anyway. 100LL is what most of us use in TZ's and I would imagine it would be a high enough octane for you and be somewhat economical.
I may get a gas powered scooter and bump up the compression but it would require 110+ octane fuel. </TD></TR></TABLE>
You can use leaded fuel in a 2 stroke engine. The lead is there to lubricate things and ultimately to resist detonation which is the mortal enemy of the two stroke world. If you are concerned there are octane aditives that you can shove into fuels that will 'pep' them up or you can use Avgas.
1. Avgas 80/87: this product is used in low compression ratio aircraft engines, contains little or no lead, is red in color, and should not be used in any automotive engine due to a low motor octane number of about 80.
2. Avgas 100/130: this product that can be used in some automotive engines. It has both research and motor octane numbers slightly over 100. Avgas 100/130 is green in color, contains four grams of lead per gallon, and is becoming harder to find.
3. Avgas 100 LL: the LL stands for "low-lead" which means two grams per gallon, low compared to the avgas 100/130 that it was designed to replace. It has research and motor octane numbers very similar to the 100/130 product previously discussed. The color is blue. This product sometimes has a high level of aromatics which can contribute to lazy throttle response and dissatisfaction of the consumer.
4. Avgas 115/145: this product was developed for high performance piston aircraft engines used in world war II and in the Korean war. It is very hard to find anymore due to lack of demand although it is of very high octane quality. The color is purple.
Avgas is less dense than most racing gasolines. Instead of weighing about 6.1 to 6.3 pounds per gallon like racing gasoline, it weighs 5.8 to 5.9 pounds per gallon. The racer must compensate for this by changing to richer (larger) jets in the carburetor when changing from racing gasoline to avgas.
The other major difference is octane quality. Avgas is short on octane compared to most racing gasolines. Many racing engines with "quick" spark advance curves or with no centrifugal advance have more spark advance at low rpm than avgas and some racing gasolines can handle. The result is detonation, especially during caution periods in circle track racing because all of the spark advance is "in", rpm is low, and part throttle air fuel ratios are too lean for the operating conditions. If the driver does not "work" the throttle back and forth, pistons can be "burned" which melts away part of the aluminum piston material. Inadequate octane quality is one of the quickest ways to destroy an engine. Pistons can be severely damaged during one acceleration where detonation is present and the racer may not know what is happening until it is too late.
For maximum performance and power from a racing engine, racing gasoline will normally provide better performance than avgas. Avgas can be a good gasoline for some applications.
End of the day you could go to someting like Elf fuel but then you are paying a substantial amount for it, too much to shove in a scooter anyway. 100LL is what most of us use in TZ's and I would imagine it would be a high enough octane for you and be somewhat economical.
09-02-2003, 04:18 PM
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Re: Calling on a all 2-stroke gear heads. (Luke)
Damn Luke, you da man!
Thanks for the replies everyone. Just wanting to make sure I don't harm the engine. Some one else said the worst that could happen was a fouled plug.
Thanks for the replies everyone. Just wanting to make sure I don't harm the engine. Some one else said the worst that could happen was a fouled plug.
09-03-2003, 09:13 AM
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Re: Calling on a all 2-stroke gear heads. (Luke)
avgas is what most of my friends use. elf gas is also another choice, but most of these stuff are only used when you are running high comp. or race only bikes like rs250, tz250, etc. my race nsr is using just normal hi-oc (102-104 octane rating)
09-03-2003, 12:56 PM
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Re: Calling on a all 2-stroke gear heads. (Raz1983)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Raz1983 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">avgas is what most of my friends use. elf gas is also another choice, but most of these stuff are only used when you are running high comp. or race only bikes like rs250, tz250, etc. my race nsr is using just normal hi-oc (102-104 octane rating)</TD></TR></TABLE>
I run 100LL on my TZ, but it has '93 barrels and 95 Ignition, which is the best Unleaded ignition Yamaha made. My boss's 2001 TZ has to run Elf exotica as it is making 87HP to my 78HP
I run 100LL on my TZ, but it has '93 barrels and 95 Ignition, which is the best Unleaded ignition Yamaha made. My boss's 2001 TZ has to run Elf exotica as it is making 87HP to my 78HP
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09-08-2003, 11:02 PM
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Re: Calling on a all 2-stroke gear heads. (Ivan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ivan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what would be the best here in the states thats readily available?</TD></TR></TABLE>
You can get hold of Avgas at any local airport.
You can get hold of Avgas at any local airport.
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