Where did I f#@$k up the timing belt?
06-16-2008, 11:41 AM
#1
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Where did I f#@$k up the timing belt?
94 with stock 1.5.
I just changed the timing belt and after starting it up, find that it is running rough...as I would suspect it would if off a tooth on the timing belt.
I just dont know how this happened when I was so damn careful.
I lined up the oil pump pointer with the crank timing gear and then made sure the cam gear marks were all lined up also.
When the belt was installed I turned the crank...using the bolt that holds the pulley on...and rotated the engine a couple of revolutions.
Rechecked everything...camshaft gear was good, oil pump pointer was good, timing belt tension was good (didnt replace the spring, just the tensioner)...car has 175K miles...should I have done the spring also?
I actually pushed on the tensioner a little, not much, before tightening the 14mm bolt that holds it...I figured this would give me a tad more tension just in case the spring had lost some of its pull over the years....
Was this my scroo up? Should I have put a new spring on?
Damn I'm pissed right now. I have to tear it all down again....
I just changed the timing belt and after starting it up, find that it is running rough...as I would suspect it would if off a tooth on the timing belt.
I just dont know how this happened when I was so damn careful.
I lined up the oil pump pointer with the crank timing gear and then made sure the cam gear marks were all lined up also.
When the belt was installed I turned the crank...using the bolt that holds the pulley on...and rotated the engine a couple of revolutions.
Rechecked everything...camshaft gear was good, oil pump pointer was good, timing belt tension was good (didnt replace the spring, just the tensioner)...car has 175K miles...should I have done the spring also?
I actually pushed on the tensioner a little, not much, before tightening the 14mm bolt that holds it...I figured this would give me a tad more tension just in case the spring had lost some of its pull over the years....
Was this my scroo up? Should I have put a new spring on?
Damn I'm pissed right now. I have to tear it all down again....
06-16-2008, 06:06 PM
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Re: Where did I f#@$k up the timing belt? (mattbatson)
When you do a t-belt, do the tensioner. Always. Also, make sure you thread the belt the way Honda recommends in the manual. While you're in there, it's really easy to change the water pump. Might as well...
06-16-2008, 07:01 PM
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Re: Where did I f#@$k up the timing belt? (dpaton)
it is the bone stock 1.5 SOHC engine.
I did change the tensioner AND the water pump.
I did not change the tensioner spring, which is a separate part number from the tensioner.
Is this what you meant by always change the tensioner?
The routing of the belt is pretty hard to mess up...I've done a timing belt or two, on other motors, and it is pretty self-explanatory.
The cam gear, only one, has three lines and an UP mark. The three lines line up with a pointer at bottom left and the the head gasket. The UP mark, points straight up.
Like I said, I cant see how it got off by a tooth. I was very, very careful and made sure everything was lined up...even after turning the motor over a couple of times. I checked the timing belt tension many times.
I did change the tensioner AND the water pump.
I did not change the tensioner spring, which is a separate part number from the tensioner.
Is this what you meant by always change the tensioner?
The routing of the belt is pretty hard to mess up...I've done a timing belt or two, on other motors, and it is pretty self-explanatory.
The cam gear, only one, has three lines and an UP mark. The three lines line up with a pointer at bottom left and the the head gasket. The UP mark, points straight up.
Like I said, I cant see how it got off by a tooth. I was very, very careful and made sure everything was lined up...even after turning the motor over a couple of times. I checked the timing belt tension many times.
06-17-2008, 09:36 AM
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Re: Where did I f#@$k up the timing belt? (mattbatson)
any ideas?
Anybody have any experience with replacing timing belts? Any decent mechanics?
Anybody have any experience with replacing timing belts? Any decent mechanics?
06-17-2008, 09:43 AM
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hmm. maybe you got the wrong belt?
check your engine code might not be the original one like my dx that has a b2 instead of a b7 that it came with
check your engine code might not be the original one like my dx that has a b2 instead of a b7 that it came with
06-17-2008, 09:47 AM
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Re: (jimmy o.)
On the D Series cam pulleys that are 3 ways to time the pulley
D15Z1
http://www.rr-ax.com/bbs/photo...=1254
D15B7 & D15B8
http://www.rr-ax.com/bbs/photo...=1253
D16Z6
http://www.rr-ax.com/bbs/photo...=1224
Make sure you are using the right marks.
Also you need to follow the tensioning instructions exactly.
Your car will run ok no matter which way you have the timing set.
Make sure that you have all the spark plugs connected correctly too, and that the sparkplug connectors are all on the spark plugs ALL THE WAY.
Modified by Crazydave at 8:27 AM 6/19/2008
D15Z1
http://www.rr-ax.com/bbs/photo...=1254
D15B7 & D15B8
http://www.rr-ax.com/bbs/photo...=1253
D16Z6
http://www.rr-ax.com/bbs/photo...=1224
Make sure you are using the right marks.
Also you need to follow the tensioning instructions exactly.
Your car will run ok no matter which way you have the timing set.
Make sure that you have all the spark plugs connected correctly too, and that the sparkplug connectors are all on the spark plugs ALL THE WAY.
Modified by Crazydave at 8:27 AM 6/19/2008
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06-17-2008, 11:00 AM
#8
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Re: (Crazydave)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crazydave »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On the D Series cam pulleys that are 3 ways to time the pulley
D15Z1
http://www.rr-ax.com/bbs/photo...=1254
D15B7 & D15B8
http://www.rr-ax.com/bbs/photo...=1253
D16Z1
http://www.rr-ax.com/bbs/photo...=1224
Make sure you are using the right marks.
Also you need to follow the tensioning instructions exactly.
Your car will run ok no matter which way you have the timing set.
Make sure that you have all the spark plugs connected correctly too, and that the sparkplug connectors are all on the spark plugs ALL THE WAY.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
^^^What he said. That's what I was trying to get to with my questions.
D15Z1
http://www.rr-ax.com/bbs/photo...=1254
D15B7 & D15B8
http://www.rr-ax.com/bbs/photo...=1253
D16Z1
http://www.rr-ax.com/bbs/photo...=1224
Make sure you are using the right marks.
Also you need to follow the tensioning instructions exactly.
Your car will run ok no matter which way you have the timing set.
Make sure that you have all the spark plugs connected correctly too, and that the sparkplug connectors are all on the spark plugs ALL THE WAY.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
^^^What he said. That's what I was trying to get to with my questions.
06-17-2008, 11:04 AM
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Re: (Crazydave)
you know, I dont think I have the wrong belt.
I didnt, however, check the part number (it is from advanced auto)
However, it did seem to fit perfectly. I cant see it being too big or too small.
In fact, there is no way it is too small, as it was a tight fit...even with the tensioner pushed all the way over...I could barely get it on.
I didnt, however, check the part number (it is from advanced auto)
However, it did seem to fit perfectly. I cant see it being too big or too small.
In fact, there is no way it is too small, as it was a tight fit...even with the tensioner pushed all the way over...I could barely get it on.
06-17-2008, 11:15 AM
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Re: (CivicSpoon)
First off, thank you both for replying...
I was trying to save some money and do it myself and really appreciate the help...
Okay, your pics of the cam gear timing marks are exactly what I have on my car. There are three lines, two go to the head surface/gasket and the third is down and kinda to the left and points to a pointer on a plastic piece below the gear...and of course the "UP" goes up.
Now, this obviously needs to coincide with the oil pump pointer. When turning the crank, every OTHER revolution results in everything lining up...cam gear AND oil pump pointer.
Okay, now this is the biggie that I think is what screwed me up....
The instructions in the manual called for you to rotate the engine COUNTERCLOCKWISE after installing the belt for the distance of THREE TEETH ON THE CAM GEAR in order to tension the belt.
Then to turn it clockwise for a couple of revolutions and check to see all the timing marks are lined up.
Now, when I went to do the counterclockwise turn, I found the belt wanted to skip off the crank gear and it actually slipped one tooth on the gear.
When I turned it clockwise, it was fine as the crank gear was pulling directly from the cam gear and not having to pull through the tensioner and water pump as it did when I turned COUNTERCLOCKWISE....
So, after reseting the belt, I decided not to turn it counterclockwise and just rotated it several times clockwise. The tension felt fine on the belt, so I figured all was good.
This, I think is where I messed up.
Now, how do I solve this the second time around? Why did the belt not want to turn the motor counterclockwise?
I was trying to save some money and do it myself and really appreciate the help...
Okay, your pics of the cam gear timing marks are exactly what I have on my car. There are three lines, two go to the head surface/gasket and the third is down and kinda to the left and points to a pointer on a plastic piece below the gear...and of course the "UP" goes up.
Now, this obviously needs to coincide with the oil pump pointer. When turning the crank, every OTHER revolution results in everything lining up...cam gear AND oil pump pointer.
Okay, now this is the biggie that I think is what screwed me up....
The instructions in the manual called for you to rotate the engine COUNTERCLOCKWISE after installing the belt for the distance of THREE TEETH ON THE CAM GEAR in order to tension the belt.
Then to turn it clockwise for a couple of revolutions and check to see all the timing marks are lined up.
Now, when I went to do the counterclockwise turn, I found the belt wanted to skip off the crank gear and it actually slipped one tooth on the gear.
When I turned it clockwise, it was fine as the crank gear was pulling directly from the cam gear and not having to pull through the tensioner and water pump as it did when I turned COUNTERCLOCKWISE....
So, after reseting the belt, I decided not to turn it counterclockwise and just rotated it several times clockwise. The tension felt fine on the belt, so I figured all was good.
This, I think is where I messed up.
Now, how do I solve this the second time around? Why did the belt not want to turn the motor counterclockwise?
06-17-2008, 12:04 PM
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Re: (mattbatson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The instructions in the manual called for you to rotate the engine COUNTERCLOCKWISE after installing the belt for the distance of THREE TEETH ON THE CAM GEAR in order to tension the belt.
Then to turn it clockwise for a couple of revolutions and check to see all the timing marks are lined up.
Now, when I went to do the counterclockwise turn, I found the belt wanted to skip off the crank gear and it actually slipped one tooth on the gear.
When I turned it clockwise, it was fine as the crank gear was pulling directly from the cam gear and not having to pull through the tensioner and water pump as it did when I turned COUNTERCLOCKWISE....
So, after reseting the belt, I decided not to turn it counterclockwise and just rotated it several times clockwise. The tension felt fine on the belt, so I figured all was good.
This, I think is where I messed up.
Now, how do I solve this the second time around? Why did the belt not want to turn the motor counterclockwise?</TD></TR></TABLE>
DO NOT BY ANY MEANS TURN YOUR CRANK CLOCKWISE.
this is how you [freak] up your cam timing.
then you have to start all over again.
When you set your oil pump pulley to the mark... and the cam pulley to it's mark..
are you sure.. that your #1 piston is at TDC..
and both your valves are closed.... maybe you have it 180 degrees off?
The way to check this.. is.. put your belt on.. and tension it and everything.
take out the sparkplugs... this will make it easier to turn.
then turn your enginer.... .COUNTER CLOCKWISE.
and watch your valves on #1... they should not move as it approaches TDC and passes it.
READ THE HONDA MANUAL
http://www.redpepperracing.com/technical/main.php
Then to turn it clockwise for a couple of revolutions and check to see all the timing marks are lined up.
Now, when I went to do the counterclockwise turn, I found the belt wanted to skip off the crank gear and it actually slipped one tooth on the gear.
When I turned it clockwise, it was fine as the crank gear was pulling directly from the cam gear and not having to pull through the tensioner and water pump as it did when I turned COUNTERCLOCKWISE....
So, after reseting the belt, I decided not to turn it counterclockwise and just rotated it several times clockwise. The tension felt fine on the belt, so I figured all was good.
This, I think is where I messed up.
Now, how do I solve this the second time around? Why did the belt not want to turn the motor counterclockwise?</TD></TR></TABLE>
DO NOT BY ANY MEANS TURN YOUR CRANK CLOCKWISE.
this is how you [freak] up your cam timing.
then you have to start all over again.
When you set your oil pump pulley to the mark... and the cam pulley to it's mark..
are you sure.. that your #1 piston is at TDC..
and both your valves are closed.... maybe you have it 180 degrees off?
The way to check this.. is.. put your belt on.. and tension it and everything.
take out the sparkplugs... this will make it easier to turn.
then turn your enginer.... .COUNTER CLOCKWISE.
and watch your valves on #1... they should not move as it approaches TDC and passes it.
READ THE HONDA MANUAL
http://www.redpepperracing.com/technical/main.php
06-17-2008, 12:10 PM
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Re: (Crazydave)
Tension Adjustment:
ALWAYS rotate the crank counter clockwise (CCW) when viewed from the pulley side. Rotating it clockwise MAY RESULT IN IMPROPER ADJUSTMENT OF THE BELT TENSION.
1.) Rotate crank 5-6 times (CCW) to set the belt
2.) Set #1 to TDC
3.) Loosen adjusting bolt 180 degrees
4.) rotate crank (CCW) by three teeth
5.) Tighten Adjusting bolt.
ALWAYS rotate the crank counter clockwise (CCW) when viewed from the pulley side. Rotating it clockwise MAY RESULT IN IMPROPER ADJUSTMENT OF THE BELT TENSION.
1.) Rotate crank 5-6 times (CCW) to set the belt
2.) Set #1 to TDC
3.) Loosen adjusting bolt 180 degrees
4.) rotate crank (CCW) by three teeth
5.) Tighten Adjusting bolt.
06-17-2008, 12:13 PM
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Re: (mattbatson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First off, thank you both for replying...
I was trying to save some money and do it myself and really appreciate the help...
Okay, your pics of the cam gear timing marks are exactly what I have on my car. There are three lines, two go to the head surface/gasket and the third is down and kinda to the left and points to a pointer on a plastic piece below the gear...and of course the "UP" goes up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
THESE MARKS DO NOT ALL LINE UP AT THE SAME TIME.. They are all different
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Now, this obviously needs to coincide with the oil pump pointer. When turning the crank, every OTHER revolution results in everything lining up...cam gear AND oil pump pointer.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is correct
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Then to turn it clockwise for a couple of revolutions and check to see all the timing marks are lined up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is your mistake.
DO NOT TURN Clockwise AT all ever
I was trying to save some money and do it myself and really appreciate the help...
Okay, your pics of the cam gear timing marks are exactly what I have on my car. There are three lines, two go to the head surface/gasket and the third is down and kinda to the left and points to a pointer on a plastic piece below the gear...and of course the "UP" goes up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
THESE MARKS DO NOT ALL LINE UP AT THE SAME TIME.. They are all different
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Now, this obviously needs to coincide with the oil pump pointer. When turning the crank, every OTHER revolution results in everything lining up...cam gear AND oil pump pointer.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is correct
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Then to turn it clockwise for a couple of revolutions and check to see all the timing marks are lined up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is your mistake.
DO NOT TURN Clockwise AT all ever
06-17-2008, 12:38 PM
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Re: (Crazydave)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crazydave »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">THESE MARKS DO NOT ALL LINE UP AT THE SAME TIME.. They are all different
That is correct
This is your mistake.
DO NOT TURN Clockwise AT all ever</TD></TR></TABLE>
X2 this guy seems to know his stuff. Props to crazydave
That is correct
This is your mistake.
DO NOT TURN Clockwise AT all ever</TD></TR></TABLE>
X2 this guy seems to know his stuff. Props to crazydave
06-17-2008, 01:18 PM
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Re: (Crazydave)
Ok, the three lines all line up with their respective marks...Just like the pictures you posted. The first two were exactly like mine.
In these pics you see three lines on the cam gear. Two are lined up with the head gasket and the third is lined up with a pointer at around 5 o'clock, and the UP mark is up.
I'm 100% certain this is how it is supposed to be. It showed it in my crap Haynes manual, you showed it here on this thread, and when looking at it on the car it looks like it was design that way.
Per Haynes manual...
""Install the belt with slight tension between the sprockets on the front (radiator side). With the tensioner bolt loose, slowly rotate the crankshaft COUNTERCLOCKWISE or a distance of three teeth on the camshaft sprocket. This puts tension on the belt.
Tighten the tensioner bolt.
Carefully turn crankshaft thru two revolutions and recheck the timing marks for propert alignment.
Reinstall all parts""
Here is the problem.
You say to never rotate clockwise, and the manual also confirms to rotate counterclockwise.
I cannot do this. If I do, the belt which is being pulled through the tensioner and water pump...loosens up and skips off the crank gear.
I tried doing it counterclockwise (as your facing the pulley), but couldnt.
Is this because my tensioner spring is too weak?
I've just ordered a new one from honda dealer and will be getting it tomorrow.
In these pics you see three lines on the cam gear. Two are lined up with the head gasket and the third is lined up with a pointer at around 5 o'clock, and the UP mark is up.
I'm 100% certain this is how it is supposed to be. It showed it in my crap Haynes manual, you showed it here on this thread, and when looking at it on the car it looks like it was design that way.
Per Haynes manual...
""Install the belt with slight tension between the sprockets on the front (radiator side). With the tensioner bolt loose, slowly rotate the crankshaft COUNTERCLOCKWISE or a distance of three teeth on the camshaft sprocket. This puts tension on the belt.
Tighten the tensioner bolt.
Carefully turn crankshaft thru two revolutions and recheck the timing marks for propert alignment.
Reinstall all parts""
Here is the problem.
You say to never rotate clockwise, and the manual also confirms to rotate counterclockwise.
I cannot do this. If I do, the belt which is being pulled through the tensioner and water pump...loosens up and skips off the crank gear.
I tried doing it counterclockwise (as your facing the pulley), but couldnt.
Is this because my tensioner spring is too weak?
I've just ordered a new one from honda dealer and will be getting it tomorrow.
06-17-2008, 01:31 PM
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Re: (mattbatson)
by the way, I just saw your instant message...sorry I missed it earlier.
I do think it is all about the direction I was rotating the engine after installing the belt.
I will try again to rotate it counterclockwise this evening and let you know how it goes...
Or, do I need to wait for the new spring?
Is this really important..do they weaken over time?
I do think it is all about the direction I was rotating the engine after installing the belt.
I will try again to rotate it counterclockwise this evening and let you know how it goes...
Or, do I need to wait for the new spring?
Is this really important..do they weaken over time?
06-17-2008, 03:47 PM
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Re: (mattbatson)
pulled it apart and everything seems fine.
The problem is, the two marks out to the sides that are supposed to line up with the head and the UP mark are difficult to tell by looking at them if they are perfect.
The third line mark, the one that points down and to the left (lines up with a plastic inner cover pointer), is easier to see if it is lined up properly. Very distinctive with a nice, easy to see pointer...
Unfortunately, this inner cover pointer doesnt apply to my motor which is the D15B7.
How do you know if the cam gear is exactly at TDC? If it is off just a little, it could be the one tooth that is screwing me over...right?
I mean, all the marks look correct. But, if off just a little...I could put it all together and be back at square one.
I made sure that #1 is at TDC.
The problem is, the two marks out to the sides that are supposed to line up with the head and the UP mark are difficult to tell by looking at them if they are perfect.
The third line mark, the one that points down and to the left (lines up with a plastic inner cover pointer), is easier to see if it is lined up properly. Very distinctive with a nice, easy to see pointer...
Unfortunately, this inner cover pointer doesnt apply to my motor which is the D15B7.
How do you know if the cam gear is exactly at TDC? If it is off just a little, it could be the one tooth that is screwing me over...right?
I mean, all the marks look correct. But, if off just a little...I could put it all together and be back at square one.
I made sure that #1 is at TDC.
06-17-2008, 05:32 PM
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Re: (mattbatson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, the three lines all line up with their respective marks...Just like the pictures you posted. The first two were exactly like mine.
In these pics you see three lines on the cam gear. Two are lined up with the head gasket and the third is lined up with a pointer at around 5 o'clock, and the UP mark is up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
All three lines will NEVER MATCH UP to their pointers... They are all at different angles.
That it why there are THREE Pictures.
the two horizintal lines will be even with the dead of the head
-or-
The line at 8:00pm will line up with the mark at 8:00pm
-or
the horizontal lines will line up with the two arrowmarks on the plastic cover
NONE OF THESE WILL LINE UP AT THE SAME TIME.
[/QUOTE]
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm 100% certain this is how it is supposed to be. It showed it in my crap Haynes manual, you showed it here on this thread, and when looking at it on the car it looks like it was design that way.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I am 100% certain that the honda manual I posted is correct.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Per Haynes manual...
""Install the belt with slight tension between the sprockets on the front (radiator side). With the tensioner bolt loose, slowly rotate the crankshaft COUNTERCLOCKWISE or a distance of three teeth on the camshaft sprocket. This puts tension on the belt.
Tighten the tensioner bolt.
Carefully turn crankshaft thru two revolutions and recheck the timing marks for propert alignment.
Reinstall all parts""
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Correct rotate the crank 2 revolutions... you need to turn it 2 revs CCW
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Here is the problem.
You say to never rotate clockwise, and the manual also confirms to rotate counterclockwise.
I cannot do this. If I do, the belt which is being pulled through the tensioner and water pump...loosens up and skips off the crank gear.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Then you routed the belt wrong.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I tried doing it counterclockwise (as your facing the pulley), but couldnt.
Is this because my tensioner spring is too weak?
I've just ordered a new one from honda dealer and will be getting it tomorrow.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
the belt should go straight down from the the left side of the camshaft pulley to the crank pully.
I hope that you are turning the motor by using the crank and not the cam pulley
Here is the timing belt routing.
http://www.rr-ax.com/bbs/photo...=1255
In these pics you see three lines on the cam gear. Two are lined up with the head gasket and the third is lined up with a pointer at around 5 o'clock, and the UP mark is up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
All three lines will NEVER MATCH UP to their pointers... They are all at different angles.
That it why there are THREE Pictures.
the two horizintal lines will be even with the dead of the head
-or-
The line at 8:00pm will line up with the mark at 8:00pm
-or
the horizontal lines will line up with the two arrowmarks on the plastic cover
NONE OF THESE WILL LINE UP AT THE SAME TIME.
[/QUOTE]
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm 100% certain this is how it is supposed to be. It showed it in my crap Haynes manual, you showed it here on this thread, and when looking at it on the car it looks like it was design that way.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I am 100% certain that the honda manual I posted is correct.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Per Haynes manual...
""Install the belt with slight tension between the sprockets on the front (radiator side). With the tensioner bolt loose, slowly rotate the crankshaft COUNTERCLOCKWISE or a distance of three teeth on the camshaft sprocket. This puts tension on the belt.
Tighten the tensioner bolt.
Carefully turn crankshaft thru two revolutions and recheck the timing marks for propert alignment.
Reinstall all parts""
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Correct rotate the crank 2 revolutions... you need to turn it 2 revs CCW
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Here is the problem.
You say to never rotate clockwise, and the manual also confirms to rotate counterclockwise.
I cannot do this. If I do, the belt which is being pulled through the tensioner and water pump...loosens up and skips off the crank gear.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Then you routed the belt wrong.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I tried doing it counterclockwise (as your facing the pulley), but couldnt.
Is this because my tensioner spring is too weak?
I've just ordered a new one from honda dealer and will be getting it tomorrow.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
the belt should go straight down from the the left side of the camshaft pulley to the crank pully.
I hope that you are turning the motor by using the crank and not the cam pulley
Here is the timing belt routing.
http://www.rr-ax.com/bbs/photo...=1255
06-17-2008, 05:41 PM
#20
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Re: (mattbatson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">pulled it apart and everything seems fine.
The problem is, the two marks out to the sides that are supposed to line up with the head How do you know if the cam gear is exactly at TDC? If it is off just a little, it could be the one tooth that is screwing me over...right?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok... since you have a D15B7... you need to use the two horizontal lines to be level with the head.
This is what I do...
1.) Grab a straight edge... or something flat, straight and stiff... like a ruler or something.
make sure it is lying flat across the head...where valve cover sits...and that the edge goes to the cam gear.
2.) Now look at the marker and compare it to the bottom of the ruler.
The problem is, the two marks out to the sides that are supposed to line up with the head How do you know if the cam gear is exactly at TDC? If it is off just a little, it could be the one tooth that is screwing me over...right?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok... since you have a D15B7... you need to use the two horizontal lines to be level with the head.
This is what I do...
1.) Grab a straight edge... or something flat, straight and stiff... like a ruler or something.
make sure it is lying flat across the head...where valve cover sits...and that the edge goes to the cam gear.
2.) Now look at the marker and compare it to the bottom of the ruler.
06-17-2008, 05:56 PM
#21
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Re: (mattbatson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, the three lines all line up with their respective marks...Just like the pictures you posted. The first two were exactly like mine.
In these pics you see three lines on the cam gear. Two are lined up with the head gasket and the third is lined up with a pointer at around 5 o'clock, and the UP mark is up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
All three lines will NEVER MATCH UP to their pointers... They are all at different angles.
That it why there are THREE Pictures.
the two horizintal lines will be even with the dead of the head
-or-
The line at 8:00pm will line up with the mark at 8:00pm
-or
the horizontal lines will line up with the two arrowmarks on the plastic cover
NONE OF THESE WILL LINE UP AT THE SAME TIME.
[/QUOTE]
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm 100% certain this is how it is supposed to be. It showed it in my crap Haynes manual, you showed it here on this thread, and when looking at it on the car it looks like it was design that way.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I am 100% certain that the honda manual I posted is correct.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Per Haynes manual...
""Install the belt with slight tension between the sprockets on the front (radiator side). With the tensioner bolt loose, slowly rotate the crankshaft COUNTERCLOCKWISE or a distance of three teeth on the camshaft sprocket. This puts tension on the belt.
Tighten the tensioner bolt.
Carefully turn crankshaft thru two revolutions and recheck the timing marks for propert alignment.
Reinstall all parts""
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Correct rotate the crank 2 revolutions... you need to turn it 2 revs CCW
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Here is the problem.
You say to never rotate clockwise, and the manual also confirms to rotate counterclockwise.
I cannot do this. If I do, the belt which is being pulled through the tensioner and water pump...loosens up and skips off the crank gear.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Then you routed the belt wrong.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I tried doing it counterclockwise (as your facing the pulley), but couldnt.
Is this because my tensioner spring is too weak?
I've just ordered a new one from honda dealer and will be getting it tomorrow.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
the belt should go straight down from the the left side of the camshaft pulley to the crank pully.
I hope that you are turning the motor by using the crank and not the cam pulley
In these pics you see three lines on the cam gear. Two are lined up with the head gasket and the third is lined up with a pointer at around 5 o'clock, and the UP mark is up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
All three lines will NEVER MATCH UP to their pointers... They are all at different angles.
That it why there are THREE Pictures.
the two horizintal lines will be even with the dead of the head
-or-
The line at 8:00pm will line up with the mark at 8:00pm
-or
the horizontal lines will line up with the two arrowmarks on the plastic cover
NONE OF THESE WILL LINE UP AT THE SAME TIME.
[/QUOTE]
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm 100% certain this is how it is supposed to be. It showed it in my crap Haynes manual, you showed it here on this thread, and when looking at it on the car it looks like it was design that way.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I am 100% certain that the honda manual I posted is correct.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Per Haynes manual...
""Install the belt with slight tension between the sprockets on the front (radiator side). With the tensioner bolt loose, slowly rotate the crankshaft COUNTERCLOCKWISE or a distance of three teeth on the camshaft sprocket. This puts tension on the belt.
Tighten the tensioner bolt.
Carefully turn crankshaft thru two revolutions and recheck the timing marks for propert alignment.
Reinstall all parts""
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Correct rotate the crank 2 revolutions... you need to turn it 2 revs CCW
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Here is the problem.
You say to never rotate clockwise, and the manual also confirms to rotate counterclockwise.
I cannot do this. If I do, the belt which is being pulled through the tensioner and water pump...loosens up and skips off the crank gear.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Then you routed the belt wrong.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattbatson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I tried doing it counterclockwise (as your facing the pulley), but couldnt.
Is this because my tensioner spring is too weak?
I've just ordered a new one from honda dealer and will be getting it tomorrow.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
the belt should go straight down from the the left side of the camshaft pulley to the crank pully.
I hope that you are turning the motor by using the crank and not the cam pulley
06-17-2008, 05:59 PM
#22
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Re: (Crazydave)
Here is what you do:
Since you have a D15B7 You need to line up the horizontal lines to the top of the deck.
First remove the belt
then
1.) Grab something flat and stiff... like a cigarette box.. or small ruler.. razor blade... whatever.
(the piece of paper is the cylinder head. the pen it the cam.. and the CD is the cam gear)
2.) Place it on the deck.. where the valve cover sits:
3.) now look a the edge and see if line ups
if you are having difficulty seeing .. then use a mirror.
If it is not lined up... then use a wrench and turn the cam gear until it lines up.
then install the belt.
then follow the tensioning procedure..
then check the alignment again.
Modified by Crazydave at 7:06 PM 6/17/2008
Since you have a D15B7 You need to line up the horizontal lines to the top of the deck.
First remove the belt
then
1.) Grab something flat and stiff... like a cigarette box.. or small ruler.. razor blade... whatever.
(the piece of paper is the cylinder head. the pen it the cam.. and the CD is the cam gear)
2.) Place it on the deck.. where the valve cover sits:
3.) now look a the edge and see if line ups
if you are having difficulty seeing .. then use a mirror.
If it is not lined up... then use a wrench and turn the cam gear until it lines up.
then install the belt.
then follow the tensioning procedure..
then check the alignment again.
Modified by Crazydave at 7:06 PM 6/17/2008
06-17-2008, 06:25 PM
#23
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Re: (Crazydave)
holy cow, thanks for all of your effort dave!
I will do the straight edge thing as you described.
And I will make sure I only turn the crank to the LEFT ONLY!
I'm gonna put it back together tomorrow...pray for me!
I will do the straight edge thing as you described.
And I will make sure I only turn the crank to the LEFT ONLY!
I'm gonna put it back together tomorrow...pray for me!
06-18-2008, 03:30 PM
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Re: (mattbatson)
Ok,
I put it all together. I used the method you suggested of lining up the marks on the cam gear.
I was really careful to make sure that #1 was at TDC.
As I would turn the crank to the left, it would go through two revolutions, and then I checked again and everything was lined up perfect.
I even did an initial turn of three grooves on the cam gear with the tensioner bolt loose, then tightened the tensioner bolt.
I never turned the crank to the right...only left.
I put it all together, and it runs exactly as it did the first time I put it all together.....ROUGH!
The engine idles, but shakes more than it should or did. When you blip the throttle, it stutters..although the revs do rise (albeit not as quickly as they should)
The only other thing I replaced was the plug wires. Maybe there is a bad one in the set?
Or, am I still off a tooth on the belt
I just dont know how doing it a third time is going to make any difference. Everything was perfect. It makes no damn sense.
I put it all together. I used the method you suggested of lining up the marks on the cam gear.
I was really careful to make sure that #1 was at TDC.
As I would turn the crank to the left, it would go through two revolutions, and then I checked again and everything was lined up perfect.
I even did an initial turn of three grooves on the cam gear with the tensioner bolt loose, then tightened the tensioner bolt.
I never turned the crank to the right...only left.
I put it all together, and it runs exactly as it did the first time I put it all together.....ROUGH!
The engine idles, but shakes more than it should or did. When you blip the throttle, it stutters..although the revs do rise (albeit not as quickly as they should)
The only other thing I replaced was the plug wires. Maybe there is a bad one in the set?
Or, am I still off a tooth on the belt
I just dont know how doing it a third time is going to make any difference. Everything was perfect. It makes no damn sense.
