WaryDriver

I put a new timing belt on. Then i was tightening the tensioner center bolt to 44-47 N*m i cant remember exactly what was supposed to. I'd turn the crank and retension, turn and re-tention that bolt. It was tightening but the belt seemed too loose. So I started torquing it until it wouldnt go anymore CW past 45 or whatever on my torque wrench to more like 60+ N*m. Then I tried backing off that bolt and seems stuck so it wont go CCW or CW. Im sure I could eventually break it back CCW. The belt seems ok tension but not quite as tight as the old belt. What are some good tricks to see if the belt is not tight enough. Besides cranking my engine and seeing if my car self destructs.

tony_2018

Torquing the tensioner bolt down.............does not tighten the belt. What you just did was completely tighten the bolt into the block. I would be very careful right about now.

TomCat39

Unfortunatly, you have seriously over tightened the bolt.

All you can do is loosen the bolt and deal with whatever damage has been done or will occur during loosening.

You may also now be forced to replace the tensioner too as it now may be distorted and not work the same as it normally would.

I haven't actually taken a really solid look at the tensioner to know how it's constructed so it may be able to handle that extra clamping force you put on it, but it may not also. Just be prepared if the tensioner is not the same after this.

Hopefully you haven't damaged the block, you will know once you back the bolt out so that you can totally remove the tensioner and inspect it.

Good luck.

WaryDriver

Turning it CCW loosened the old belt just fine. Turning it back CW tightened the new belt SOMEWHAT. I torqued to 44 N*m but the belt was loose. SO i kept tightening until I couldn't tighten anymore CW thinking that would make the belt tight as it could be.

Guess I could have damaged the block's hole threads going past 44 Nm is that what youre saying to be careful with not doing?

When I finally cranked, it was loud around where the timing belt was I think. And a burning rubber smell. I left the upper cover off. And so flapping could be seen about 1/2 in to and inch you could seen on the part of the belt that goes from the camshaft straight down to the crankshaft (front, forward). Then uncranked and you could pressed the belt in like a inch easily.

So I should replace the tensioner, right? The belt has same dimensions as old Honda OEM and same part number. I compared their dimensions new vs old.

98civdx

Tightening the belt to **** WILL NOT tighten the belt.

Just hope you didn't screw anything up with that stunt, and try loosening the belt and tighten the belt the correct way.

tony_2018

Fixed.

WaryDriver

****. I thought that center bolt tightened the belt but it really just holds the tensioner in place. TO TIGHTEN THE BELT, I MOVE THE TENSIONER THING UPWARDS? Then secure that position with the center bolt?? HOW DO I KNOW WHEN THE BELT IS TIGHT ENOUGH (HOW FAR TO SET THE TENSIONER UPWARDS)???


What is more likely.. Did I damage the tensioner OR the bolt hole threads in the block by using a breaker bar to tighten that center 14mm bolt way beyond torque spec? I was hammering an extension with a hammer to try and tighten the belt with that bolt. DAMN

Also, I cannot tighten the belt without removing the bottom TB cover and getting hold of the tensioner...correct? Why do they have that bolt accessible through the bottom TB cover? You cannot move the tensioner up or down so that hole seems useless and made me think it was for adjusting the TB tension.

Former User

Read the service manual procedure.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

PLEASE read the PAQ sticky about timing belt replacement before you totally destroy your engine. you have zero idea what you are doing.

edit- ron beat me to it by 30 seconds.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

No, no, that's not how you tension the belt properly either. Quit ******* with **** that you don't understand. Buy/borrow/download a FSM, or ASK BEFORE FIDDLING.

Attachment 518632

You're welcome.

WaryDriver

After reading, I do not have to remove the bottom TB cover now it seems. So I was tightening randomly instead of turning to TDC, loosening that adjusting bolt 180deg, then turning crankshaft CCW 3 teeth on the cam gear, then tighening to 44 N*m. I never read to do all of this. So I was tightening the adjusting bolt at random instead of when the tension has been more on the tensioner than the cam to crank gear path. Adjusting bolt stopped because it hit the correct tension because it was more tight than it should have been against the tensioner.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Of course not. There's a plug in the cover to give you access to the adjustment bolt. You didn't notice the plug? You went through the whole process of pulling the crank pulley, and didn't notice the plug? You got everything off, and didn't realize that the tensioner was spring loaded? You loosened the tensioner bolt, and didn't see the spring pull the tensioner back?

Do you see what I'm getting at? Put the tools down, open your eyes, and pick up the FSM before you break something else.

No, the tensioner bolt didn't "stop" because it "hit the correct tension". It stopped because you overtorqued it. That bolt doesn't actually adjust anything. It holds the tensioner pulley in place. It's position in absolutely no way controls the tension of the belt. The procedure in the FSM properly tensions the belt, and then tightening the bolt down to spec holds it in place. Period. That's it. If you just want to do the work, get the FSM, and follow the steps to a tee. If you actually want to understand what's going on, then open your eyes, do a little bit of critical thinking, and maybe learn a little bit about simple machines (which is middle school level ****).

WaryDriver

My car runs afterwards and keeps perfect timing after cranks without reading fancy procedures you read and follow from someone else, and Ive never changed a timing belt or any V belt before. Nor did I replace the tensioner so I didnt get my hands on it. And Im in a hurry to fix the tension so i dont have to drive with a loose belt that might skip a tooth before Sunday. Even though it will drive. I'm a critical thinker and you are a follower. I'm actually not good at following instructions.

I did those procedures for tensioning in my own way before by rotating the crank then tighten just not "3" teeth and from TDC. Now i did exactly according to the fancy procedures and still doesnt add tension to the belt. So I'm thinking the tensioner is not working either because of me misunderstanding how the tensioner tensions. Now I understand the tensioner should work on its own. I will call tomorrow and see if the dealership carrys tensioners for a 98 civic.

MisereNoire

A few thoughts...you said you had started the engine after you had overtightened the bolt, but not the belt...and that you saw the belt, in motion, flapping about and smelling of burning rubber, right?
If so, you have made that timing belt a time bomb. You NEED to replace it with a fresh un-murdered belt in addition to a new tensioner, tensioner spring (maybe), tensioner bolt, AND a very careful inspection of the tensioner bolt threads (which are aluminum BTW and rarely come out of a serious overtorque without extensive damage that you sometimes cannot see, but days down the road may have your tensioner simply pop off the block and proceed to **** your entire engine)...you may need to repair/have someone repair those threads...DO NOT trust that they will simply hold from now on.

If you are not comfortable with doing this extensive work yourself, then unhurry yourself and pay someone to do the job right...otherwise you will likely end up needing a new motor in the near future.

P.S> another bit of info. The tensioner itself is just a sealed-bearing flat faced pulley mounted on a backing bracket with a pivot-pin hole, the tensioner pulley itself doesn't actually tighten the belt, it simply provides a surface for the belt to rotate smoothly on. the load on the belt is initially applied by the tensioner spring pulling on the tensioner pulley bracketry (which pivots radially on a pin), and then properly set by the 3 tooth rotation putting a rotational load on the belt, placing the tensioner pulley and spring at the proper distance, at which point the tensioner bolt is tightened to clamp the tensioner pulley against the engine block, setting correct timing belt tension. whether you knew this already, i do not know, but it never hurts to have mechanics explained in simple (albeit, repetitive) terms.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Claims to be a critical thinker, thinks that the bolt controls the tension of the timing belt.



So, how much deflection is there in the belt?

tony_2018

FXED

TomCat39

Fixed

burnoutboy

iTrader: (22)

Here's the likely sequence of events needed to save your block IMO.


Take the bolt out and inspect the threads. If in fact there are any threads lubricate them WELL with WD-40 and chase them with a tap of the proper size and pitch. Then inspect again. I'm betting the threads are done though based on the unwillingness of the bolt to turn either way. You'll likely be drilling the threads out CAREFULLY and inserting a time-sert or maybe just some helicoil if you wanna do it the meh way.

If you're not comfortable with that it's time for the block to go to the machine shop.

After than get a new bolt, tensioner, and belt and follow the proper procedure this time.


Good luck.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

FUXED

Oh wait, were you guys talked about each other's posts? I'm just talking about this thread.

TomCat39

WaryDriver

I was able to break the bolt back CCW by using a socket attached to a breaker bar and hammer. Lots of hammering on the breaker bar to break this bolt back CCW. Like 30 hammer hits and finally broke free. No telling how much torque I torqued that bolt. A lot because I hammered it a lot to TIGHTEN IT (REALLY DUMB) thinking that was to tighten the belt and that the bolt was hung up.

I am going to inspect the bolt and bolt hole next. The bolt catches when going CW to tighten even though i havent done it full torque to 44 N*m, I have tightened back slightly with a wrench turn and catches snug. If I am able to torque a new bolt (I ordered a new one from hondapartsnow as well as a new spring for tensioner) to 44 and seems to hold the tensioner snug, should I leave it alone? Or, should I go ahead and drill out then Hellicoil it or another insert since I know I really put A TON of stress on the bolt & hole threads? In other words, how would you proceed now that i got the bolt free'd and I'm getting a new bolt in the mail? And say that it catches the hole snuggly? Would you not worry about drilling out and inserts or would you just put the new bolt in and not worry about it as long as it torques to spec?

Touching it not very hard is about an inch deflection on the front long path from cam to crank gear. It flaps along front on the long path back and forth up to an inch when engine is cranked.

burnoutboy

iTrader: (22)

Post a pic of the threads. At the VERY least chase them with a tap.

98civdx

lol. Thanks.

You use the method mentioned in the service manual.

I would replace the tensioner and the belt. Inspect the bolt, and the threads very carefully. thread it in a few times without the tensioner to be safe.

There is a hole in the timing cover to access the tensioner bolt. You don't move the tensioner, the timing belt does.

WaryDriver

Below are images I took of the hole and old bolt after removal. Reminder- I'd overtightened the bolt severely and wanted to know if I should be concerned. I installed tensioner with the new silver bolt with some thick grease smeared all over the threads turned by hand as far as i could, and I was hoping it would be slightly longer than original bolt but wasn't (That was the main reason I ordered a new bolt because i read they made them very slightly longer to grab some extra threads). It tightened normally to 40N*m. It looked like the old brass color bolt was undamaged. How do the hole's threads look from my pictures? And what about that indention around the hole, is that something I created or is it supposed to have that carved out indention? Here is a link to even more photos I took like 25 photos i took at different angles (OvertightenedBolt - Album on Imgur) and I selected the ones below from that album. Do look through my album because maybe there is a more telling photo than these. Almost did not get this bolt out it would not budge either way for so long. Then finally CCW it came loose, I was nervous getting it loose again.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

they don't look awesome. you MIGHT get away with it, the bolt and threaded area are both long. you *could* use some threadlocker for insurance, and know when you next do the job it will need some extra work.