nemeii

yeah so i went to get my car inspected and after the ecu magically was "not ready" again according to the service shops machine (even though i checked the night before to confirm with my own code reader that all emmissions systems were ready and operating without error) I paid the guy and went to start my car to pull out of the garage and now magically the car wouldnt start.

Ive been driving this car for months with no start up problems and now it doesnt even try to crank.

I thought maybe it was a low batt. but I even got a jump in the parking lot, no dice.

Only one relay clicks (the one on the driver side above and to the left of the under dash fuse box)
~(that I could hear, locate, and feel anyway)

The CEL light, the low batt light, nor the low oil pressure light come on when in the start position
(usually when starting the car they all light up for 1-3 seconds or so on most cars I believe)

I dont hear the fuel pump kick on, nor the relay that controls it and the Fuel Inj. 's

the lights that do come on however are the parking brake and the srs airbag light.

the headlights, tailights, turnsignals and dash backlight all work (I know because they light up)

I checked all fuses and they were fine, I started checking power to the fuses and so far there was power to all the ones I checked that are supposed to have juice when the ign. is in the "ON" or "START" position.


Anybody have any ideas? because Im def. running short...

nemeii

No ones got any ideas???





^bump^

TeGGY_LS

i had the same problem on my element. wouldnt crank over, no fuel pump priming...... tried jumping the car too..

my problem ending up being a completely dead battery. take the battery out and take it to autozone or any place that will test it.

Ploeg8393

Is the ecu fully plugged in?

civicb16eg

u sure u checked your ecu or ecu fuse? happened to me before and it ended up being a blown ECU fuse

nemeii

Well im pretty sure i checked all my fuses, and what about the lack of dash indicator lights?

But I will probably check them again at this point, however i was fiddling about with the car last night and the lights flashed a bit when I moved the ELD connector underneath the UNDER-DASH fuse box

but after a while it was unresponsive... so i disconnected the sensor plug to the alternator and bam the CEL light and low oil light came on bright.... but still no "low battery" light and it still doesnt even try to turn over

Im thinking it might be the ELD is there any way to bypass it to see if its the problem, i would think its possible considering they are only a USDM component. Also in the case that im totally off base - why the hell would the CEL light and low oil pressure light come on when i unplugged the alternator sensor plug??

raidacaipo

omg dude.. same thing happened to me for no reason.. all I did was just changed headers.. my car wont even turn over or crank. The engine check, oil pressure and battery indicator lights are very dim and the E-brake light is really bright! I checked everything like you. I wanna fix this problem to.. maybe we just need to change our under hood fuse box?

slowcivic2k

First, you should tell us what car, what engine, what year ,and what you have done to it. How can you fix an invisible car? Thats what I thought... come on.

You should start by rerouting the grounds to the factory location/condition, and make sure all the connections from said grounds are clean, and serviceable. Make sure the power and ground on the starter motor are also clean, and that the blk/yel wire is seated properly in the starter, not bent, or corroded.

The ELD is under the hood, integrated into the fuse panel.

raidacaipo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowcivic2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First, you should tell us what car, what engine, what year ,and what you have done to it. How can you fix an invisible car? Thats what I thought... come on.

You should start by rerouting the grounds to the factory location/condition, and make sure all the connections from said grounds are clean, and serviceable. Make sure the power and ground on the starter motor are also clean, and that the blk/yel wire is seated properly in the starter, not bent, or corroded.

The ELD is under the hood, integrated into the fuse panel.</TD></TR></TABLE>
well I beleive that this problem is universal. I have the exact same problem as this guy and 30 mins before I had the problem the car started fine. I unplugged the sensor from my alternator like this guy did and my indicator lights were BRIGHT!! cept my low battery light wasnt on and I still cant crank my car.. something is going on here..

slowcivic2k

So... GM's have these problems too then? What model Ford do you have?

Well anyway.... you did something, you have wires touching that shouldn't be, or poor/incorrect wiring. The starter is an uncontrolled circuit. There are only a handful of things that would cause a car to not crank at all.

As for you raidcaipo, you need to look at what you did when you installed your headers. Obviously you tweaked something past, or present.

You do also realize that people hack their wiring for swaps with butt connectors and poorly insulate them, this causes electrical problems, believe it or not. Ive seen lots of it, and it makes it hard as hell to find the cause sometimes.

raidacaipo

I think the only wires I touched when I installed the headers were the o2 sensor but that shouldnt affect it in anyway.. it just doesnt make sense.. 30 mins before I started the car and moved it into my drive way to install headers.. after installing it car wouldnt crank.. it just doesnt make sense..

nemeii

Ok , gentleman

my apologies, I have a 97 civic ex, manual

I also found something interesting quoted below in another thread but hadnt known the causes however have not been able to locate a short ---- -although it seems apparent considering the heater relay was quite warm when i was fiddling about under the hood the other night, so i temporarily removed it.

[QUOTE:]
slowcivic2k -

Your rear O2 sensor wiring is most likely shorted. If you eliminated it, recheck the wiring. There is a TSB out there for wires rubbing on the intake manifold, causing this sort of malfunction. **** The heater line shorts to ground, popping the fuse instantly once the car is turned to ON (II).****

I experienced this when I removed the rear O2 sensor (converted to OBD1) I tucked the plug into the car and the insulation rubbed off, and shorted it out. Took me 3 days of backtracking to find that problem. I also suffered the speedo issue, and the battery light would not come on. (Fuse 15 blew, which is ALT/SP SENSOR) The charging issue is what kept my car from moving. This will drain the battery fast, and the car will begin to misfire, and eventually die.

I had an HO2 code, ELD code, Speedo code. [END QUOTE:]


Up until recently i had also converted to obd1. In the beginning there was issues and everytime I hit a bump the damn fuse would blow but eventually it went away much to my befuddlement. So now it turns up again except without the fuse blown.

Anyway that still doesnt answer our problem however because the fuse hasnt popped but that may be a factor?? In the UNDER-DASH fuse box is where the "heater relay" is located. What the hell does it heat? The rear O2 sensor? Im kind of getting that impression from "slowcivic2k"s post but when i was OBD1 i still had the secondary O2 sensor plugged in, so Idk where it couldve shorted to when i was running obd1. I had a conversion harness for the ecu so i suppose it was just a blank unpinned end in the connector harness.

As far as getting pinched under the manifold? how would that happen? Not only isnt the Main Engine Control Harness mounted to my manifold anymore but the support brace is also not there to "pinch" it. Not only that but why would there be lines running across the engine bay when the the only thing that the 2ndary o2 sensor heater goes to is the emmisions evap system next to and below the battery. Unless theres a short involved with to the primary o2 sensor heater which would explain why its in an area under the manifold.

The other thing i noticed when looking at a diagram of what to fix that was sent by honda to its dealers is that Im not even using the plug that I believe said had the problem, I mean it wasn the best diagram in the world but the only I.D. the plug was labeled with was C116, or C115 I cant recall at the moment.

So lets say that something is shorted and grounding out, that has to do with the power from fuse 15

would that stop the car from turning on and the lights from working?
If the alternator plug is unplugged does this eliminate a ground source thus allowing the dash lights to light up with the better ability to draw more current rather than allowing the power to ground through the alternator circuitry?? even though it fixs the low voltage problem it also stops the signal outputs from the alternator which probably stops the car from being able to crank also

Seeing as how this is still occuring even though my heater relay is removed do you guys think its between the fuse 15 and the heater relay? DO you guys have any idea how the relay system works for the heater relay system in the UNDER-DASH fuse box??


abt the post below... new harness is like $190 ::sigh::

Modified by nemeii at 8:41 AM 8/1/2008


Modified by nemeii at 8:44 AM 8/1/2008

alex711

I had the same problem on a 93 civic cx with a gsr motor... i put a new firewall harness in ... :-X problem solved.... it is a wiring issue of some sort.. the guy with the header-- you probably already fried your ecu and u probably have some o2 sensor wires that are ground out .. otherwise you did touch something else putting that header in... good luck wiring problems are the WORST kind of problems to have

raidacaipo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alex711 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had the same problem on a 93 civic cx with a gsr motor... i put a new firewall harness in ... :-X problem solved.... it is a wiring issue of some sort.. the guy with the header-- you probably already fried your ecu and u probably have some o2 sensor wires that are ground out .. otherwise you did touch something else putting that header in... good luck wiring problems are the WORST kind of problems to have</TD></TR></TABLE>
im the guy with the header
well I actually unplugged the o2 sensor from the headers before I even removed it.. I just removed it fro the bung along with the o2 sensor.. so that shouldnt be the problem.. I had my car on jackstands on level 4. One of the notches slipped causing my jackstand to fall back to level 1 on the driver side.. so the car fell down with it causing a loud BOOM.. im guessing something got knocked loose..
oh btw it was by the earthquake we had 4 days ago in california.. noone was under the car when it happened.

nemeii

can anyone explain to me what bundle of wires conventionally gets pinched under the manifold?

Like i said i couldnt identify it based on the recall/ fix diagram sheet.

So for example what sesnsors it plugs into would be great, or the colors of the wires in the bundle would also be nice.

I traced the primary and secondary O2 sesnsor wires last night to no avail. I see no possible shorts.


By The Way &gt;&gt;&gt; "raidacaipo"

Mine used to blow everytime i hit a bump when i first did my swap, so a 3 or 4 inch fall would probably be the cause, seeing as how just my driving bumps were never as severe and eventually the short vibrated out of contact.....until now

raidacaipo

yeah I fixed it now.. turns out I forgot to add a ground wire for my tranny!! its like running a car without a ground for the head

slowcivic2k

Kinda figured that was the case.

raidacaipo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowcivic2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Kinda figured that was the case.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah Im an idiot.. LOL

nemeii

good for you bro

Im still stuck though. this kinda sucks....


Anyone have an idea of what color wires go to and from the heater relay in the under dash fuse box??

::sigh::

Ploeg8393

Do you know how to read a wiring diagram?

If so, i have a complete wiring diagram for an 97 ek, pdf version. This thing is very very thourogh. Im sure its the same for 96 and 98's too.

If you want it, pm your email, and anyone else who wants it, pm me.


Modified by Ploeg8393 at 10:22 AM 8/3/2008

nemeii

I thought i replied to you but i guess it didnt go through if you get this please do send me the diagram thanks,

nemeiii@yahoo.com &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; there are three "i"'s in my email address

nemeii

FIXED!!

turned out to be a short in the speed sensor,

I unplugged it and bam the dash lights went back on and started right up.

freaking amazing ::sigh:: now for another pretty penny for a new sensor

Ploeg8393

I would not have guessed that.

nemeii

the speed sensor is powered by the ignition signal, trying to save money on wiring, the bums.

the O2 sensors, the evap control, and the vehicle speed sensor all get supplied from the same fuse