Intermittent Crank, No Start, No Green Key
08-12-2018, 04:17 AM
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Intermittent Crank, No Start, No Green Key
A friend of mine has a 2000 Honda Civic iSR 1.6L MTX with D16Y8 engine. This is a European model, with the old 3 pin DLC, not the new 16 pin OBDII DLC. According to the Hondash site it's probably an intermediate Honda OBD-2B ECU.
Basically, about a year after the engine was replaced, the car started having an intermittent cranking no start. First thing we checked was the PMG-FI relay, which looked good with no signs of melted or cracked solder connections on the relay PCB. We then noticed that during the no start the relay would not click, and the green key on the dash wasn't coming on. When the car starts, the green comes on. The condition seems fairly random, although my friend thinks maybe it happens with one key more than another.
My first inclination at this point would be something wrong with the transponder that reads the chip in the keys, but there is another variable. The car has a third party keypad immobilizer installed. It was installed at the dealer before the car was originally sold as far as I know.
Assuming that the ECU ground on the engine is good, I'm wondering if there is an easy way to narrow down exactly where the problem is. I have access to an old factory scan tool that will connect to the old 3 pin DLC. If it's a problem with the built in immobilizer will I see a DTC? If I don't see a DTC can I assume it's the third party keypad immobilizer that's the problem? Could the third party immobilizer interrupt the signal from the transponder to the immobilizer unit, or something like that?
Any other suggestions on how to approach this? I've also got a scope.
Basically, about a year after the engine was replaced, the car started having an intermittent cranking no start. First thing we checked was the PMG-FI relay, which looked good with no signs of melted or cracked solder connections on the relay PCB. We then noticed that during the no start the relay would not click, and the green key on the dash wasn't coming on. When the car starts, the green comes on. The condition seems fairly random, although my friend thinks maybe it happens with one key more than another.
My first inclination at this point would be something wrong with the transponder that reads the chip in the keys, but there is another variable. The car has a third party keypad immobilizer installed. It was installed at the dealer before the car was originally sold as far as I know.
Assuming that the ECU ground on the engine is good, I'm wondering if there is an easy way to narrow down exactly where the problem is. I have access to an old factory scan tool that will connect to the old 3 pin DLC. If it's a problem with the built in immobilizer will I see a DTC? If I don't see a DTC can I assume it's the third party keypad immobilizer that's the problem? Could the third party immobilizer interrupt the signal from the transponder to the immobilizer unit, or something like that?
Any other suggestions on how to approach this? I've also got a scope.
08-12-2018, 10:35 AM
#3
Re: Intermittent Crank, No Start, No Green Key
The key RFID immobilizer system did not reach USDM Civics until 2001.
In those there are three major parts in the car: an antenna mounted at the ignition switch, a processing module under the dash, and the ECU itself. I think that third-party systems to allow starting without the key (remote start) would fake the communication from the processing module to the ECU.
In those there are three major parts in the car: an antenna mounted at the ignition switch, a processing module under the dash, and the ECU itself. I think that third-party systems to allow starting without the key (remote start) would fake the communication from the processing module to the ECU.
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