B serious

iTrader: (1)

So I was thinking about this.

Usually, when you go to undo the rear LCA to shock bolts on pretty much any 88-00 civic or 90-01 integra, the mother fu#%ing bolt breaks off at the head. The solution would usually be to just get the whole LCA out of the car (which is sometimes problematic as well) and either buy new bushings or a new LCA.

Someone should try my method since I wont be lowering civics/integras any time soon. I'm may or may not lower my EM1...but if I did, it wouldn't be any time soon. No time, too cold.

Here it is:

Instead of turning the 14mm hex bolt that you can see from the back of the car, you should break off the 19 or 17mm (i forgot) spot welded nut on the shock itself. Make sure you clean the threads and heat the **** out of the nut prior to taking it off. You dont want the 14mm bolt to snap off at this end either.

If you're getting new shocks, it doesn't matter what happens to your old ones. If you're not getting new shocks, it's not a big deal. The only difference is that you'll have to hold this nut with a wrench when you go to put the new bolt back in.

Get a breaker bar, break off the spotwelds, and spin the nut off the 14mm bolt.

At this point, the bolt could be either seized to the bushing, or it could come right out.

If it slips right out, sweet..you're done.

If it's seized to the bushing, you can now get a big *** mother F'ing hammer and beat the F out of the F'ing bolt that always gets stuck. Since you're not twisting, the bolt can't break. Since the bushing is in between the shock fork, it's not going anywhere. Clamp the shock fork with a C clamp if you have space so that you minimize flex.

Beat the F out of it....violence is the key here. I have a lot of anger towards that bolt. Be a tough guy. Play some really hardcore gangster rap or death metal or something crazy to intimidate the bolt (and your neighbors) further.

At that point, it will hopefully come out of the bushing and you'll just have to get a new bolt. The bolt is $7 each at the honda dealer, IIRC.

If it doesn't come out of the bushing, go work out your guhhhrly arms so you can hit it harder next time. Jk.

If it doesn't come out of the bushing, you're right back to where you would have been; In the need of new LCAs or new bushings.

This way, atleast you tried absolutely everything.

Hopefully someone's gotta lower their car and will give my theory a shot. If this works out, maybe a mod should sticky it and give me a medal? eh? eh? cmonnnnnn.......


** Instead of using a hammer, you could also use a ball joint press or something like that. The hammer is satisfying because you get to hit stuff.


Edit: I would assume that the Ball joint seperator/press would work a lot better since it would hold the shock fork from flexing and seperating the bushing in the process.


Modified by B serious at 12:12 AM 3/22/2008


Modified by B serious at 7:57 PM 3/22/2008

ek4_b16a

pretty hilarious post here, but sounds like a good write up...too bad i already lowered my car and breaking off that stupid head on the bolt...someone try this and keep us all posted!!!

EARLdaSQUIRREL

i doubt it will work, as i have put a huge *** press on that bolt to push it out of the bushing and it wouldnt budge, i doubt a hammer or ball joint press would work

DCSportEJ1Civic

dammit b-serious i cant get the want to lower my 97 hatch out of my head even though i know it will be more work than its worth. now i want to do it just to try your method. the only problem i see is that im pretty sure the bolt actually seizes in the bushing rather than the nut. when i did my ej1 i torched that nut off then torched the bushing out. then i replaced the bushing and i used my oem struts by putting a lock nut where the welded one used to be (with the teflon in it). it has been good for three and a half years now. but it was while i was in high school where i had a torch, a lift, and 2 teachers to help. it went pretty well actually. i wish i could do it that way again. and id like to try your method but my 97 is my dd so i wouldnt have anything to drive if i ran into a problem. and dammit its already down for a clutch change. i have the front struts half way apart. i guess i have a hard decision to make lol.

EK_B

I hate this problem, I think most people will just end up getting new LCAs.

highroller54

I've done this many times but I break the nut off with my impact (you need a good one) and then air hammer the bolt out. Works **** everytime

DCSportEJ1Civic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by highroller54 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've done this many times but I break the nut off with my impact (you need a good one) and then air hammer the bolt out. Works **** everytime </TD></TR></TABLE>

good info

do you leave the original bushings in?

highroller54

yes, bushing doesn't get hurt but the bolt does.

IGODWN

i too have had this problem once while lowering a friends teg and the same thing im seein here and after asking a friend about the history of his car is that most of you live where your cars are drivin on roads that have been subjected to salt jus my opinion though

kyalstyle

yes, they are seized into the bushing itself. i am in the middle of doing mine right now, as usual snapped the lower two bolts for the strut and trailing arm link, on both sides, LUCKILY both bolts to chassis came out barely. at least i dont have to cut anything out up there... dont think i am using those bolts again though, just in case. i found the exact bolts that fit at lowes, but A) the heads are shallower and i dont like the fact that i wont be able to get a socket onto them as easily, and B) theres no way of knowing the grade of bolt it is really... and id rather not risk it, so since none of those bolts have seen sunshine for 15 years, needless to say i will just be going to the dealer and sucking up the $10/bolt charge. in all honesty, if you have gotten to the point of considering these options for removing your LCA's, you might as well just kiss all your bushings goodbye anyway. what i did, after realizing there was no saving any of the bolts, or bushings, was to just go up in between the actual LCA and the fork of the strut, in that gap, with an angle grinder, and saw out both sides of it. it will throw molten rubber at times, so you need to get a good position where you're away from it. do the same thing for all bushings that are seized, saw up in the gap on both sides of the control arm. after sawing the actual bushings off, the entire LCA drops out, and the end pieces of the bolt/bushings either tap out of the little holes, or if they are in a weld nut can be removed from the hub by a combination of bathing in PB blaster, torching, hammering, and repeating many many times, and a nice set of bolt extractors. either use a bolt-head extracting socket (i got an Irwin set for $20 at autozone) that grabs the end of the bolt and can twist it out, or try to sand the outside pointed end down to a flat point and drill it and try to tap it out. needless to say this process renders these bushings entirely useless, so your best bet would be to buy new ones before even starting this. even once the LCA was outside on the ground, with the shaved ends and the bolt shafts sitting "freely" in the bushings, i tried half-heartedly to beat them out and PB blast them and torch them, and the rubber in the bushings fall apart, but that damn seized shaft is mated for life with them. as for the weld nuts that are on the chassis, shock, and trailing arm link, i read a few places that you would do better not to remove them if at all possible, because they hold the bushings and your suspension in alignment, thats why they are welded on, so they wont move around and that bolt threads into the exact position every time. if worst comes to absolute worst, you can knock them off, or splice them with a nut breaker and replace, but i would use a heavy duty locking washer or something in combination. anyway, i have both control arms out right now, bushings still in them, i am picking up my new set of bushings tomorrow, i am planning on torching the old bushings out and cutting the rings, cleaning off the LCA's and lubing everything up, and trying to vice/hammer the new ones in. we'll see how all that goes, any other clever or creative suggestions for manually removing bushings?

B serious

iTrader: (1)

to remove bushings, just burn them out. Use a propane torch or acetylene torch (overkill) to set them on fire. They will burn themselves out.

As for the metal OUTER ring, either take a hacksaw apart, and put it back together inside the bushing bore and cut a slot in the ring to relieve tension and bang the ring out with a hammer/chisel. Or use a sawzall to cut the notch.

The hacksaw is cheaper.

Good decision going to the dealer for bolts. You NEED the original style and strength bolts.

Since you're only doing 3 bushings, it should only take you about 5 years. lol...bushings suck really bad. REALLY really bad. I'd rather do a motor swap than swap ...say....front and rear LCA bushings.

kyalstyle

ha, that is what i am afraid of. i might end up having to take them to a machine shop around the corner where i think they have a press or some other type of magic machine... but i figured i would try to do it myself first. already spent more money than i ever planned on these things.

OnePointFive

B serious, if you'd like to test your theory, you can help me install some APC coilovers on my beater civic

i just picked them up for $20, and i'm gonna need some help with these bolts that i'm positive have never been touched.

holllaaaaaaa!!!

jdmztrane

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Beat the F out of it....violence is the key here. I have a lot of anger towards that bolt. Be a tough guy. Play some really hardcore gangster rap or death metal or something crazy to intimidate the bolt (and your neighbors) further.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Seriously the best quote ever. Hardcore gangster rap doesn't do it for me but heavy metal does. LOL.

This could actually work... too bad I broke my bolt of like 3 years ago.... where were you with this thought then?!

EARLdaSQUIRREL

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmztrane &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Seriously the best quote ever. Hardcore gangster rap doesn't do it for me but heavy metal does. LOL.

This could actually work... too bad I broke my bolt of like 3 years ago.... where were you with this thought then?! </TD></TR></TABLE>

like i stated earlier, i seriously doubt this will work if most the time the bolts wont come out with a 2/4/6 ton press

B serious

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OnePointFive &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">B serious, if you'd like to test your theory, you can help me install some APC coilovers on my beater civic

i just picked them up for $20, and i'm gonna need some help with these bolts that i'm positive have never been touched.

holllaaaaaaa!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dude, I just pimped my garage. So yeah, i'll help you out. Call me, fool. When is kevin lowering his car? I told him I'd help him out too.

kyalstyle

hey- i got all bushings out quite easily actually, via the torch and hacksaw method, cleaned them up nicely and got new bushings hammered in today. i have everything and am all set and clear to reassemble, except the one weld nut on the trailing arm. i have everything else cut out and have clean holes for every bushing except that one. i have heard people say there are only a few welds on it, and you can break it off.... i have had no such luck. i have the same one on both sides stuck in there, and i have beaten the eff out of both of them, back and forth, chiseled with a hammer, chiseled with a bigger hammer, nut cutter, torching until molten red... and still it remains, like the stubborn turd at the end of a messy crap, that you just cant shake off to save your life. its too small to get the angle grinder up in there, which i think might be the only tool i have currently capable of taking it on. the hub is in the way, and after looking at the 'star' bolts holding that on from the back and are probably more f'd than what i had so far, i decided i am not about to mess with that. if i can at least get it grinded flat, and eiter punch out the remaining bolt, or just drill a new hole through, i can put a new nut on the other side. any other any other suggestions on how to get that nut off? right now its the only thing standing in the way between me and having my car on all 4 wheels again. also- any specific nut i should use for that? i have heard a couple people mentioning something about nylon bolts. what would be the best bolt to replace it with?

my anger has spread from the bolts to perhaps every part within sight while im down there.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

See? Mine is not the only rage.

yuletak

Try a Dremel with a cutoff wheel. This happened to me recently when I tried to install an ST rear sway. It took me a while, but I used the Dremel to cut away the welds and loosened the nut off. Then used the Dremel again to cut the part of the bolt that was sticking out, drilled the two ends, then went to work w/ a prybar and got the LCA out.

I went to Orchard Supply for bolts. I see that most chassis bolts (suspension, roll bars, etc.) for aftermarket parts usually come usually with grade 8 or 8.8 (for standard and metric sizes respectively). Orchard's has grade 8 bolts and 8.8. They also have bolts with flanged heads that are grade 10.8 . I'm using those since those bolt heads match the original bolts. The only concern I have with them is that they may not have enough flex. However, seeing as how they're supposed to withstand about 150,000lbs of force per inch, I'd say they'll hold up. The only problem w/ Orchard's is the nuts which are grade 5. I have one more bolt which has been pretty stubborn. Feels like it's seized in the bushing (attaches LCA to trailing arm, I have an EF btw). Going to try the tighten first then loosen technique. I've soaked it twice now w/ PB blaster overnight. May try the heat treatment if tight/loose doesn't work.

gstewart27

I had to do this on my eg - the 14mm bolt sheared so i snapped the captive nut off and it was off. It was only tack welded on so came off with a large bar

I tried to do this on an ek after he had snapped the 14mm bolt - it wouldnt budge though since it was welded on right the way round the nut! I bent the bottom of the strut but the nut wouldnt budge, ended up just cutting it off and using a regular nut when we fitted his coilovers

hpi247

i really like this idea. i had this exact problem when doing my suspension. such a headache . may be switching lower control arms so i could give this a try.

i saw screw the balljoint press idea. i like hitting things...especially when they **** me off