Mrmatt3465

Hello.

I've been doing a lot of searching and reading regarding swaps. I have a 1995 EJ1 EX and I have been planning on doing a swap for awhile now. My biggest debate is between an H2B or a GSR.

The GSR is easy and pretty much plug and play from what I have been told/read. The H2B is a much more difficult install involving custom axles and relocations. There seems to be a lot more wiring involved and just in general more difficult.

I have never done a swap, but I consider myself pretty well mechanically inclined. My biggest issue is cost.

What do you people here at H-T consider to be a more cost effective route? I'm not looking for more $ = more HP. I'm looking at what would get me the best bang for my buck. I plan on spending ~$3000.

What do you guys recommend? All opinions [but mostly people who have done the swap] are invited and considered!

Thanks!
Matt


::EDIT::

Here is my gathered info for records and for anyone else wanting to do such a swap.

General Characteristics:
-A/C is still possible in H2B. A special bracket is required.
-H2B has much more torque then a B series.
-Pricing is about the same when everything is said and done. More or less ~$3000
-Clearance to the ground is more of an issue then clearance to the hood. Alternator relocation and the Evo kit help with hood clearance.

Difficulty of swap:
-Not much more difficult then a B series.
-p13 ECU is to be used for passing BAR. Chipped p28s run better.
-wiring is less plug and play then a B series, alternator wires must be extended.
-Balance shaft must be removed.




Modified by Mrmatt3465 at 11:33 AM 10/23/2008

h-duced

ok think about how much money its gonna take you to get that B series to 200hp safely without spray. H series FTW!! Hands down. When I used to have a stock H I would walk all over B's like they were a non v single cam. Go with the H you will be so much happier that you did.

Mrmatt3465

You are h2b correct and not just full h22 with h series tranny? Which kit did you go with? The Evo or the QSD? About how much did you spend?

batallic

obd1 h22 are cheap, h22 ftw

h-duced

no man i didn't do the whole H2b im still rocking the Hseries trans. One day I will be though Because I got a feeling my stock trans isn't gonna hold up too much longer once shes running

Mrmatt3465

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h-duced &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no man i didn't do the whole H2b im still rocking the Hseries trans. One day I will be though Because I got a feeling my stock trans isn't gonna hold up too much longer once shes running
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I see I see Ok. Looks good. How much was your motor? Did you order it online or grab it from a local sale or junkyard?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by batallic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">obd1 h22 are cheap, h22 ftw</TD></TR></TABLE>

From what I have seen and heard h22 rocks hard. How cheap is cheap?

Remember the real point of this topic is PRICING. I would rather this not turn into a B vs H.

h-duced

lets see...I bought a complete H series swap for 2300 bucks then I chose to go with hasport mounts which were about 620 bucks at the time and hasport swap axels which were another 300 but now you can get mounts and axels in your car off ebay for like 200 bucks. But remember when doing your build you get what you pay for.

batallic

theres a shop here that sells obd1 h22, for 1300 for engine and dizzy

94EG8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mrmatt3465 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The GSR is easy and pretty much plug and play from what I have been told/read. The H2B is a much more difficult install involving custom axles and relocations. There seems to be a lot more wiring involved and just in general more difficult. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you might have H2B confused with just a plain old H22 swap. H2B involves mating an H22 engine to a B-series transmission through the use of an adapter plate. With the H2B swap you use the same transmission mounts and axles you would if you were doing a GS-R swap. drivers side engine mount will be custom though, and you will still have to make up an engine harness for the H22, which honestly isn't that hard IMO.

Frickr

http://www.quartersportsdrag.com/FAQ.html

just minor modification to the frame, but use B series mounts and axles.

just clearence the block and frame for the axles and alt repectively, and get a harness which i think a few places on line can make up for you if you want.

power for dollar i think the H2B is the better choice. and will be close to, but more then likely over your 3000. but you can sell the h tranny and other components you dont want to help pay for the swap. all in all i think its pretty close to the same as a b swap

jo6wo

i cant sell yet, but email me if your still looking for a h2b. i have one, unused and in perfect condition with a low milage type r tranny. axles. linkage. brand new clutch. jo6wo@aol.com. i personally would do the h2b with a type r tranny for the stock lsd and perfect gear ratio.

Mrmatt3465

Thanks for the info guys. This helps out tremendously.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by batallic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">theres a shop here that sells obd1 h22, for 1300 for engine and dizzy</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are in canada yes? Correct me if I'm wrong [which I feel like I am] , but isn't it better to buy a motor from the country you live in regarding credit issues or something? I feel like I've read something similar to that somewhere. If I'm totally wrong, do they have a website =P?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Frickr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://www.quartersportsdrag.com/FAQ.html

just minor modification to the frame, but use B series mounts and axles.

just clearence the block and frame for the axles and alt repectively, and get a harness which i think a few places on line can make up for you if you want.

power for dollar i think the H2B is the better choice. and will be close to, but more then likely over your 3000. but you can sell the h tranny and other components you dont want to help pay for the swap. all in all i think its pretty close to the same as a b swap</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok ok, That sounds about right. Thanks for the link too!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94EG8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I think you might have H2B confused with just a plain old H22 swap. H2B involves mating an H22 engine to a B-series transmission through the use of an adapter plate. With the H2B swap you use the same transmission mounts and axles you would if you were doing a GS-R swap. drivers side engine mount will be custom though, and you will still have to make up an engine harness for the H22, which honestly isn't that hard IMO.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think that is what worried me most was wiring. I'm decent with wiring. I feel confident after my stealth alarm install that is. I guess that is just the part where I really wouldn't like to mess it up. =P

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h-duced &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lets see...I bought a complete H series swap for 2300 bucks then I chose to go with hasport mounts which were about 620 bucks at the time and hasport swap axels which were another 300 but now you can get mounts and axels in your car off ebay for like 200 bucks. But remember when doing your build you get what you pay for. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I see. Ok thanks for the price ranges! I feel like I will stay away from ebay though. I'm sure they have some good deals up there, but I would rather keep everything legit.

If I went with relocating my alternator [I believe steve-o did this and also used a SOHC alternator] then will I have clearance issues? How tough is it to delete the balance shaft? I believe that has to be dealt with as well yes? How expensive is a b16 tranny? If I remember correctly, the b16 is the shortest-geared which is best for H2B.

Keep this info flowin!

DucDucSTFU

You're going to have a really hard time doing an h2b for $3000. The h2b kit alone is $800-900 if you go with qsd, then you have to buy mounts, the. the engine. You would already be well over $2000. b16 transmissions go for between 400-600 around here from what I've seen. But h2b is definitely worth saving your money for.
The swap isn't extremely hard but it definitely is more difficult than a b-series swap. If money is your main concern I would go gsr because the price of the small pieces start to add up on the h2b.

Mrmatt3465

I see. Is the B16 tranny from a local sale, online, or a private sale at that price? I'm trying to figure exactly how much I want to save for to get this done. This will be my daily driver. I do have a back up beater s10, but I would like the whole swap to be done in one fell swoop. =P

For the motor, do I look for a complete change over or just the motor, tranny, ecu combo such as on HMO? I believe you can use the SOHC alternator so I wouldn't mind cannibalizing parts from my D16. I could have my brother fab me a header so I'm not too worried on that.

What can I cannibalize from my D16 for this H22 swap? Do I go complete change over or longblock, tranny, ecu set up?

Thanks guys!

DucDucSTFU

the b16 transmissions I was looking at for my swap were on craigslist and hondamarketplace, you just have to be patient and keep looking.

all you need from the h22 is the complete long block, the engine wiring harness, and the p13 ecu if you want to use that.

Then you need a b series clutch, flywheel, axles, intermediate shaft, and maybe shift linkage, I don't know because I have an Integra.

You can use the d series alt if you want but you need to get one of the relocation brackets for it (esp ,hasport , and innovative all make brackets)

you use whatever wiring harness came with your car and then extend the wires to fit the h22 and add any necessary wires.

Mrmatt3465

What is easier? Is it easier to use the p13 ECU or my p28 that came with my d16? That means I would have to get my p28 chipped correct?

DucDucSTFU

The p13 would be easier, you would have to get the p28 chipped and tuned which is pointless if you don't plan on modifying the engine, and it would add more money to your project budget

Mrmatt3465

Good to know.

I currently see an h22 motor being sold on craigslist for $1300. It looks appetizing. =P What do you guys think?

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/pts/879466732.html

How much would a p13 ECU cost? Hopefully not an arm and a leg

Mrmatt3465

Bump for more info to the public and more opinions

Frickr

you will need most everything that you would normally need for a B series swap outside of the plate, motor, and harness and a custom driverside motormount that comes with the kit.

whereever you can find a decent cheap h22 longblock get it. a few places online have them with waranty for around the price you found that one block.

i would say 4000 just to be on the safe side for most everything. it could be more, could be less. just buy what you can see what else you need and save up a little longer and buy whatever else you need.

sintype

save up and get a B swap.

95boostedcivic

nice how mwny pounds of boost

Mrmatt3465

Thanks for the info guys. Keep it coming :D

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95boostedcivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nice how mwny pounds of boost</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you have the wrong topic? &gt;.&gt;

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sintype &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">save up and get a B swap. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So far this H2B is proving to be slightly more then a B. H2B seems to walk on B series as well. I think H2B is my better option =P

What do you guys recommend for the kit itself? They say the QSD kit is cheaper and only requires spacers for the flywheel, where as the evo kit requires the custom flywheel. I believe when it comes down to it, they are both equally priced after purchase of a clutch etc. If I remember right, one has issues with oil draining? Or was that both systems?

Frickr

well normally an H22 sits lower in the back. and since the b tranny isnt repositioned at all, it raises the back of the motor is the way i understand it

unusual71

are you worried about getting your hood to close perfectly. or what about ground clearance?

The EVO kit sits the motor angled a little bit lower, so you have less ground clearance but more hood clearance. The QSD kit sits the motor tilted up a little more, giving you a bit of extra ground clearance but requires you to run hood spacers or fab up a custom hood.