Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000) EG/EH/EJ/EK/EM1 Discussion

From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

 
Old 04-27-2016, 07:18 AM
  #26  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

It'll see autocross and the track. It isn't hard to connect and disconnect the rear swaybar if I need extra rotation. I've never really been a fan of sways, and would rather have the springs control roll. I like having a true independent suspension on the street, so the car doesn't become upset when one wheel hits a bump in a corner.
jdblock is offline  
Old 04-27-2016, 07:48 AM
  #27  
Cool Cool Island Breezes. BOY-EE
iTrader: (1)
 
B serious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: TRILLINOIS....WAY downtown, jerky.
Posts: 11,955
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

It depends on what you do with the car. On my old ITR, I kept the spring rates streetable at 360F/380R. It didn't ride great. But not terrible either. I used a 23mm rear bar and 225/45/15's up front with 205/50's rear.

The more rear spring you use, the more uncomfortable the car becomes. So I tried to balance it all out and still keep the rotation without adding too much rear spring.

It seemed to have worked for me. I lapped Gingerman in that B18C (I/H/HFC/JDM 4.78 trans) ITR about as fast or a little faster than a typical/well driven stock AP2 would on factory-esque tires. My jaw was agap when I saw the lap timer.

In contrast, my current ITR is using the stock 22mm bar and 440 rear springs. Square 205/50 RE71R tire setup. Even with the rear bar taken out (I forgot to connect a link once after some suspension work), it rode very badly.
B serious is offline  
Old 04-27-2016, 08:10 AM
  #28  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

I don't expect, or want it to ride like a Lexus.

I have maybe an hour of driving after finishing the suspension. Mostly on smooth highway and a little on some back roads. Haven't noticed any bouncing after going to full soft, but I'm still getting use to what I'm feeling. I'm also not pushing the car hard obviously.

With 430lb rear springs, and if the sway bar is adding another, say 75lb to the spring rate, that's over 500lb total, could be more. Disconnecting it, especially with no front, is just a way to get a baseline for what the car is doing with less variables going on.

I'm the kind of guy whose going to add rear-toe-out for events to get rotation. I love a neutral handling car and am not afraid to counter steer when I need to. One of the reasons for wanting a GSR rack, quicker correction and more accurate feel.

I haven't even thought about what tires I'm going to use for events. The nice thing about using a 300 tw tire right now is that I can feel what the chassis is doing at lower speeds.

It's a slow process from here on. Small changes at a time.
jdblock is offline  
Old 04-27-2016, 08:28 AM
  #29  
Honda-Tech Member
 
durette121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

great progress! looks good
durette121 is offline  
Old 05-08-2016, 09:30 PM
  #30  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

It's no fun waiting for parts. Car has been sitting and waiting for parts, so I can get an alignment on it.

Ordered Function 7 control arms and rear Blox camber kit a month ago (4-11), from King Motorsports. Got a tracking number withing a couple days, and the tracking info said they were both being shipped.

Got my shipment about a week later, only getting the camber kit. Called King Motorsports about why I wasn't notified about the lca's (their website says they will notify customers about delays and I didn't get an email or phone call about it). Got the runaround about being a drop shipment from F7, but the fact is King didn't follow up with me about the delay. Told them to keep me up to date with the lcs's.

Got a email two days later (4-20), saying that F7 was waiting on bushings. The bushings were suppose to be in early the following week and would be shipped out to me.

On May 2, I sent an email back to King asking what was going on with the order, and have not gotten a reply.

Guess these guys are to busy taking orders, and would rather not keep customers up to date with what is going on. Will be calling F7 tomorrow and verify what's really going on.
jdblock is offline  
Old 05-09-2016, 03:23 PM
  #31  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 266
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

Timeless. That thing is awesome. I'd love to just DD it.
collkid is offline  
Old 05-10-2016, 02:23 PM
  #32  
Honda-Tech Member
 
94 Civic Si's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Estados Unidos
Posts: 1,781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

Originally Posted by jdblock View Post
Found a great deal on GSR front subframe, steering rack, control arms and sway bar, all for $20. So I drove an hour away and picked it up. Everything was really greasy and I spent a few hours cleaning it all up so I could paint the parts with gloss black enamel. Don't need power steering with this car so the Integra rack was depowered by taking the rack apart and gutting it. I don't have pictures of that, but I do have another rack I'll be doing the same thing to it, and I will snap shots when I finish that one.

I also had rear trailing arms and front knuckles from before, so those were stripped to nothing and painted too.

After everything was dry, I pressed PIC bushings into the rear trailing arm, and the front control arm. I think there's urethane bushings in the car now that are causing stiction and the car wonders over bumps and pulls randomly on the highway. I hate urethane bushings on pivot points, don't even like them on the swaybars.

Here's everything assembled and waiting to go on the car. I'm going to try running the car without the front sway to see how I like the feel. As it is the car has a slight push and I can use a bit more oversteer.



GSR rack depowered.



PIC bushings, front control arms.



PIC trailing arm bushing, clocked for about a 2.5" drop.



I used Moog inner and out tie rods when assembling the rack.



Bought a set of Innovative engine mounts to keep the engine planted. I've broken engine mounts before and that can cause a lot of damage to other parts, don't want to go through that again.



Napa Premium blanks, ceramic pads, Moog ball joints, EM1 master cylinder, 4040 valve, and new axle nuts.

$20 front subframe?!?
94 Civic Si is offline  
Old 05-18-2016, 02:36 PM
  #33  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

Originally Posted by 94 Civic Si View Post
$20 front subframe?!?
The big hunk of metal that holds the steering rack.
jdblock is offline  
Old 05-18-2016, 03:54 PM
  #34  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

Been working 60 hour weeks and finally took a day off and got to work on the car. I haven't driven it in about 30 days and finally got it to the condition where I won't chew through the tires.

The Function 7 control arms finally came in, 36 days after I ordered them. Nice pieces, but I had to finish pressing in a bushing that wasn't all the way in. Took out the Skunk2 control arms and installed the F7s. The F7 arms went in smooth. I like the way Function 7 did the bushings and crush tubes. Makes it so the bushing has minimal stiction (if any) and doesn't need to be lubed.

Also took out the Skunk2 rear camber kit and installed the Blox camber kit. The S2 rear camber kit is totally seized, the bearings and the adjuster are both shot. The rear Blox camber kit is nice and simple. Nothing fancy like the S2 kit, with the bearings. The Blox kit has rubber bushings, which I prefer, less to go wrong. The adjustment piece is stout, and adjusts easily and smoothly.

Found the rear sway bar spherical endlinks were past their expiration date. Probably an 1/8" freeplay in each link, 1/2" total across the whole sway bar. Might explain some of the clattering I was getting from the rear of the car. Took the opportunity to disconnect the bar and see how it drives. I've never been a fan of sway bars (front and rear) on a "performance" street car, I've always had base model cars with no bars or toothpicks. Hate hitting bumps mid corner and and having the car become unsettled as the spring rate increases from the sway bar. Have to figure out how the bar is held onto the ASR rear subframe (if I can just undo the 4 sway bar mount bolts), not sure how the subframe is bolted in there. Pretty sure I'll want the rear bar for track and autocross, so the ASR piece will be staying on.

On the front of the car, I took off the S2 front camber kit. I went with the stock Integra upper control arms, with Moog adjustable "Problem Solver" upper ball joints for an Integra. The Moog PS bj can be set to zero, not adding any negative camber or caster, or you can add negative camber and/or caster. The only thing I see that might be an issue, is that the top part of this bj sits higher than stock, and a bit higher than the S2 kit. Might hit the sheet metal harder if the suspension compresses all the way on a bump.

Bought some angled aluminum and a couple tape measures for DIY toe adjustment, and set front toe to zero. There was tons of toe in after installing the upper ball joints, almost 1" total. Will be getting an alignment so it can be set correctly. I've touched every steering and suspension bolt on the car including the front subframe, every bushing is brand new. I need the steering rack centered, camber even'd out, and toe set to zero.

Last, I pulled the double DIN from inside. Didn't like the touch screen controls anymore. Will be installing a Kenwood single DIN in the lower console instead. This will also give me another spot to put a DIN pocket, so I can hide my Valentine 1 conceal display and a sub control ****. I have a cheap Boss under seat sub that will help fill in the lows I'm missing.
jdblock is offline  
Old 05-18-2016, 04:12 PM
  #35  
I like the tuna here
 
DumpdEJ6's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,563
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

Sounds like a lot of work done! Just a thought, but if you have a Firestone in your area, they offer lifetime alignments for around $170 I think. And they don't play around, lifetime alignments means you could literally bring it in for an alignment every single day you own the car and that initial $170 cost pays for everything.

I have that on both my cars, 2002 Forester and my 1999 Civic. I get more of my moneys worth with the Civic since it's lowered on adjustable suspension. I get a "free" alignment every time I rotate/swap/buy tires, or adjust the suspension.
DumpdEJ6 is offline  
Old 05-18-2016, 04:23 PM
  #36  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

Originally Posted by DumpdEJ6 View Post
Sounds like a lot of work done! Just a thought, but if you have a Firestone in your area, they offer lifetime alignments for around $170 I think. And they don't play around, lifetime alignments means you could literally bring it in for an alignment every single day you own the car and that initial $170 cost pays for everything.

I have that on both my cars, 2002 Forester and my 1999 Civic. I get more of my moneys worth with the Civic since it's lowered on adjustable suspension. I get a "free" alignment every time I rotate/swap/buy tires, or adjust the suspension.
I usually do my own alignments. Just need a baseline for future adjustments.

I've gotten two alignments in the past 8 years, both after major suspension work. One was just to check alignment and it was spot on. This will be #3, really just getting it cause I'm working so much and don't have the energy to do it right now.
jdblock is offline  
Old 05-18-2016, 06:31 PM
  #37  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

Man, I love e how your build is going. I just bought a 99 ej8. Hope to do as well as you are. I disagree with the comment earlier that S2 is not good. I do stand by their stuff and it rides good when installed properly. I'm subscribed. Keep up the good work. Wish I could do half the things you have done so far. Lol
goinfast is offline  
Old 05-18-2016, 08:40 PM
  #38  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

Originally Posted by goinfast View Post
Man, I love e how your build is going. I just bought a 99 ej8. Hope to do as well as you are. I disagree with the comment earlier that S2 is not good. I do stand by their stuff and it rides good when installed properly. I'm subscribed. Keep up the good work. Wish I could do half the things you have done so far. Lol
Thank you.

I've had enough experience with parts to know what not to use. The parts I chose work best for what I want. One thing I won't do is put the same parts on my car that have already failed.

I don't want to take my suspension apart every 10k miles and lube urethane bushings, that's why I went with rubber bushings everywhere. The S2 camber kit is frozen, can't adjust it and the bearing is toast. It's a bad design that obviously lets water get in, washes the grease out, and then freezes. Sure, you can take them apart and re grease them, but that's more work than I want to do.

I want to enjoy my car, not be a slave to it.
jdblock is offline  
Old 05-19-2016, 09:46 PM
  #39  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

jdblock is offline  
Old 05-20-2016, 05:00 AM
  #40  
I like the tuna here
 
DumpdEJ6's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,563
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

Nice shot!
DumpdEJ6 is offline  
Old 05-20-2016, 02:31 PM
  #41  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

Originally Posted by DumpdEJ6 View Post
Nice shot!
Thanks. Updated the first post with another shot.
jdblock is offline  
Old 06-04-2016, 08:47 AM
  #42  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

Got home after a spirited drive and noticed the coolant overflow bubbling like mad. Looks like the head gasket is on the way out. Of course it could be a cracked block since I don't know the full history of this engine. I guess it could have been boosted at some time.

Took the spare head I have to the machine shop to have it pressure tested and resurfaced. Grabbed a Felpro head gasket from Napa and ordered ARP head studs from Summit.

Gonna swap in the stock head so I can keep driving around. Plan is to build a good NA bottom end with the spare short block, using ARP rod bolts and main studs, Honda bearings and the 11:1 Supertech pistons I have. Still have to take the block apart and take it to the machine shop to see if I can use the standard size piston or if I have to go with an oversized piston. I did some rough measuring and the cylinders seemed like they were withing spec and I might be able to get away with just honing it.
jdblock is offline  
Old 07-08-2016, 06:21 PM
  #43  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

Time to build an engine! Goal is to build a responsive NA engine that'll be running E-85.

Finally found time to take the spare block apart, and get it to the machine shop. Took the 81mm Supertech pistons in and had the shop check for PTW clearance. Came back with 0.005", which is very loose for an NA that will basically be running alcohol. So I hopped online and bought some 81.5, 12.5:1 Supertechs to fill the holes. Searched around online for a couple of days (for what pistons to buy), and I kept coming back to Supertechs, as they come with everything I want. 4032 forgings, coated pistons, and rings and pins. For the price you can find these, and the lack of bad reviews, I don't think there is a better budget piston out there.

Supertech is only a couple hours away from me, so shipping was quick. Ordered about 30 hours ago and they're already here.



While I had the credit card out, I ordered some Eagle oil squirter plugs, Supertech bronze valve guides, Supertech valve stem seals, and an Exedy stage 1 organic clutch kit.

There's an oil smell when I rev the engine out, I'm guessing it's the guides and seals. Hope the valve stems are good and I don't have to order new valves.

Grabbed a clutch now, so the whole rotating assembly can be balanced. The shop already has my lightweight flywheel, crank, and crank pully. I won't be drag racing, maybe a few times, so I don't think I need anything aggressive. Should be fine for autocross and some track days.

While I was trying to find info on the S2 cams I have (builds, reviews, etc.), I found a thread about identifying S2 cams. The Pro1 cams are supposed to be marked with an "x" now, and the boxes I have for the cams are for Pro1 cams. The cams I have though, have a "D" marking, which should be the Pro3 cams. This might be why the previous owner made 20+ Hp with the cams on 91 octane. I'll have to get in touch with S2 so at the least I know what I have. I'm still going to have to clay the engine to see the PTV clearance, and am not even sure these will work yet (after the head and block are both surfaced).



Pistons will be in the machinist's hands on Monday, I'll be asking them to go for a 0.0028" PTW clearance. Going to be having them hone the block with a torque plate. Not sure if I'm going to clean-up the intake and exhaust ports yet. I wouldn't touch them much, just enough to clean the casting.

That's all for now. I'll be updating as at all moves forward. I still have a bunch of work to do before final assembly, seals and gaskets to buy. Oil pump and water pump, timing belt, injectors, fuel pump, etc. Will still be a while before it's all in the car. Hoping early September if all goes well.
jdblock is offline  
Old 07-08-2016, 07:47 PM
  #44  
Honda-Tech Member
 
K20A3F00L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

Nice ride JD from the block
K20A3F00L is offline  
Old 07-09-2016, 01:02 PM
  #45  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Josip.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Croatia
Posts: 290
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

This is crazy build !!!

Btw, does anyone knows does GSR/ITR subframe fits on D series EJ9?
Josip. is offline  
Old 07-09-2016, 05:44 PM
  #46  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

Originally Posted by K20A3F00L View Post
Nice ride JD from the block
HI Gio.
jdblock is offline  
Old 07-09-2016, 05:52 PM
  #47  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

Originally Posted by Josip. View Post
This is crazy build !!!

Btw, does anyone knows does GSR/ITR subframe fits on D series EJ9?
Not really sure. I only did because it was cheap and I wanted to install the Integra steering rack. I don't think there's any other benefit.
jdblock is offline  
Old 07-14-2016, 04:01 PM
  #48  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

More parts coming in.
-Exedy organic "race" clutch
-Supertech valve guides and seals
-Golden Eagle Manufacturing oil squirt plugs



Going to have the rotating assembly balanced, from the crank pulley to the pressure plate. I didn't have any spare flywheel bolts or pressure plate bolts, so I bought some ARP sets. The ARP ended up being cheaper than the OEM from Honda. Bolts will be here Saturday, and at the shop Monday.

Looks like I'll be able to start measuring for bearings next weekend.

After looking at engine management, I've figured out that I'm going to go with the AEM EMS to handle the pressure.

Last edited by jdblock; 07-14-2016 at 07:07 PM.
jdblock is offline  
Old 07-15-2016, 03:56 PM
  #49  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

Emailed Skunk2 today, and they confirmed the cams I have are their Pro1 model. Guess things get mixed up when they're constantly trying to avoid knock-offs.

Kinda happy they aren't the Pro3, trying to keep some grunt down low for coming out of corners. Hope it all works out.
jdblock is offline  
Old 07-16-2016, 12:49 AM
  #50  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Josip.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Croatia
Posts: 290
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.

Sorry if I messed up something, but, why are Pro1 better than Pro3 for you?
Josip. is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.


Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: