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From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...b655ecd43e.jpg
12/19 Time for another round of major work. I still have a built engine that needs running. That means upgrades to support it's needs, fuel, air and tuning. Updates start on post 182, don't blink. Engine- in the car -Stock OBD1 Integra GSR engine -S2 v1 intake manifold -DC Sports 4-1 C.A.R.B. legal header -Integra LS OEM filter, box and inlet tube -2.25" cat -2.25" Vibrant resonator Engine Sensors and Electronics -Hondata s300 v3 -Innovate ECF-1 gauge, 4 in 1
Transmission-S4, '99 Si -Stock clutch and flywheel Suspension- front -0 toe, -1.5° camber -Koni Sports shocks -Ground Control coil overs -Ground Control springs, 180.64.61 (350 lb) -Ground Control extended top hats -PIC control arm bushings -Moog lower ball joint -S2 upper control arms, replaced boot with better one -GSR front tie bar -No name strut bar Suspension- rear -0 toe, -0.75° camber -Koni Sports shocks -Ground Controls -GC springs, 180.64.67 (430 lb) -PIC trailing arm bushing, clocked for 2.5" drop -Blox toe adjusters -Blox camber kit -Function 7 rear control arms -ASR subframe Steering -de-powered GSR steering rack -Moog inner and outer tie rods -SIR steering wheel Brakes -GSR discs front and rear -Russell steel braided brake lines -7/8 master cylinder -4040 proportioning valve -ATE Super Blue DOT 4 Interior -EX civic door cards -radio block off plate -Integra shift knob -Sparco S-Light driver seat, bolted to the floor as low as possible -Broadway rear view mirror -Integra passenger sear and rear seat Exterior -cheap side mirrors with blue glass -Ebay front lip -bad paint https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...16069865c9.jpg Build in Progress -B18C1 block, surface decked -Golden Eagle MNF oil squirter plugs -Supertech 81.5 mm pistons, wrist pins and piston rings, P4-H815-P7, 252 grams -Eagle H-beam rods, big end resized for accurate bearing fitment, 545 grams -ARP rod bolts -ATI harmonic balancer, 7" steel race version -ARP crank pulley bolt -balanced rotating assembly -Gates timing belt -ARP head studs -ported p72 head, deshrouded valves, cc'd at 40cc -Supertech 85 lb springs, retainers and keepers -Supertech beehive lost motion springs -Supertech flat faced valves -S2P1 cams -S2 cam gears -S2 70 mm throttle body -ARP flywheel bolts -ARP pressure plate bolts -ProLite xACT Flywheel, 8.7 lbs -MFactory For Reference https://honda-tech.com/forums/transm...orial-2443459/ https://racespeconline.com/collectio...nda-Connectors https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...g-bundle-long/ |
Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
Found a great deal on GSR front subframe, steering rack, control arms and sway bar, all for $20. So I drove an hour away and picked it up. Everything was really greasy and I spent a few hours cleaning it all up so I could paint the parts with gloss black enamel. Don't need power steering with this car so the Integra rack was depowered by taking the rack apart and gutting it. I don't have pictures of that, but I do have another rack I'll be doing the same thing to it, and I will snap shots when I finish that one.
I also had rear trailing arms and front knuckles from before, so those were stripped to nothing and painted too. After everything was dry, I pressed PIC bushings into the rear trailing arm, and the front control arm. I think there's urethane bushings in the car now that are causing stiction and the car wonders over bumps and pulls randomly on the highway. I hate urethane bushings on pivot points, don't even like them on the swaybars. Here's everything assembled and waiting to go on the car. I'm going to try running the car without the front sway to see how I like the feel. As it is the car has a slight push and I can use a bit more oversteer. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...bc3760ebb7.jpg GSR rack depowered. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...eaa8483bbf.jpg PIC bushings, front control arms. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...8da4d81705.jpg PIC trailing arm bushing, clocked for about a 2.5" drop. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...f57d200dc6.jpg I used Moog inner and out tie rods when assembling the rack. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...ab77d81da8.jpg Bought a set of Innovative engine mounts to keep the engine planted. I've broken engine mounts before and that can cause a lot of damage to other parts, don't want to go through that again. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...26cea05ade.jpg Napa Premium blanks, ceramic pads, Moog ball joints, EM1 master cylinder, 4040 valve, and new axle nuts. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...f2e8fc7a80.jpg |
Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
Looks like a lot of quality parts and pictures. I predict this car, and thread, will be a success.
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Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
I like quality parts. Hate having to go and fix stuff over and over again.
It'll be a slow build. Lots of research going into this thing to make it the way I want. I'll be going for more power eventually. I'll most likely go high compression on e-85, and then turbo it. Like I said, not rushing so it'll be a while. I like to do some DIY stuff. Have to grab some pics of my latest part, and I'll post it up. |
Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
Been looking for a clean set of Koni Ground Controls, so I can install them along with all the parts above. Found a clean set local and will be picking those up tonight. I like how the rear end sits, but the front needs to come up a good amount. Way to much camber and toe curve going on in that part of the suspension travel.
Will be spending a day installing parts, and stringing an alignment, soon. The car should be nice and tight after all that is done. I'm really looking forward to the quicker steering rack for more feedback when driving. Took my LS mesh wheels off a white EG I'm selling, and put those on the red EG. They have brand new 205/50/15 Yokohama S-Drive, so now I have some decent tires to roll around on. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...5984df5c16.jpg I like the look of these wheels more than the blades. Plus I can't stand that the blades face the opposite direction on one side of the car than the other. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...d8340d0907.jpg I did a compression test and got 180+ on three cylinders. Number 2 measured 165. I think the previous owner over honed the cylinder. I talked to a machine shop and have started getting an idea of what I want to do to restore compression, and build an engine that can take some abuse. The engine is good to drive around on right now, just who knows when the cylinder is going to pop from excessive blow by. Better to plan ahead. I have some stock sized, high compression Supertech pistons, so I'm going to have the engine dry sleeved eventually so I can use them. I'll be installing forged rods, full ARP bolts/studs along with timeserts in the head to allow even more clamping force. Then I'll grab a fuel pump and injectors and get tuned for e85. If I feel like I need/want more power:fun, I can then turbo to 400+ and not worry to much. |
Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
Set of used GC with extended top hats, and Koni sport shocks. Supposedly less than a year old. Looks like they were installed and then taken off. Got lucky and they have the spring rates I wanted, 340lb front, and 430lb rear. The guy told me he had the front shocks grooved to raise the front end an inch, gives me some play room when I set them up on my hatch.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...516c2b1138.jpg] |
Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
Looking very good! I also have the Koni/GC setup on my EJ6, you won't regret it. I love the way it rides, although I did the opposite of you and have my spring rates at 500f/400r.
I also have Yokohoma S.Drives. Great tires, very grippy. |
Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
Thanks. Patience and persistence will pay off in the end.
Koni makes a really nice product, I expect good things from this setup. |
Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
This is my extended shifter I made from an old golf club, two brass inserts and a 10x1.5 threaded rod. Bought the club at a thrift shop for $1. The brass inserts I had laying around. The threaded rod cost me $1.90.
Not bad for $3 and about an hour figuring it out. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...fe9063e623.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...e68c75a7c2.jpg |
Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
in4more
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Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
Planning on swapping everything over tomorrow, and stringing an alignment on Monday. Hope all goes well for this first round of mods.
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Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
Got the rear swapped over today. Ran into a couple hiccups with old parts
From... https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...6dcc8f401a.jpg To... https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...1a691f9e7f.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...ea29df29a4.jpg Found some other parts that need to be changed. The bushings in the Skunk2 control arms are shot, gone. Also found that the Skunk2 camber kit on the driver side is useless, the adjuster is completely seized and the bearing on the inner side is seized too. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...53303acfdf.jpg Needles to say, I will be looking into replacements. Not sure if I'll be keeping with S2, or go another route. Does anyone know if you can press rubber bushings into S2 rear control arms? I hate urethane bushings in pivot points. The toe adjusters had bad bushings. Had some that fit from a PIC kit that I bought, so those pressed in and out. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...48b0f0e9ed.jpg Have to make ride height adjustments. These came out of an Integra, and is riding like a monster truck. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...b1b9d87c46.jpg |
Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
s2 parts= no bueno. diggin the progress, i miss clean cars.
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Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
I'm not going to give them any of my money. Going to give the AMR camber kit a shot, I like that they have rubber bushings. And Function 7 seems to have a good reputation for control arms, just not sure if I want to go with the sphericals or their urethane bushings.
Question about lowering the rear. Am I going to need a helper spring to keep the spring from rattling? There's about 1mm of preload on the spring as it sits now. Seems that if I lower an inch, the spring will be an inch short at full droop. |
Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
Get the pillow ball bushing (spherical)
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Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
Anyone know if the camber curves are online somewhere. I've spent a good long while searching and I'm tired of sifting through threads about slamming frame and if Raceland coilovers are any good. At this rate it'd be quicker to measure it myself.
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Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
You seem to be like me and want to get the real, hard, serious data instead of the usual "how low can I go?" stuff. I will be following your build.
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Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
Picked up another GSR long block for a pretty good deal. Took a gamble not knowing if it ran. Opened it up today, and the top end looks clean. Cam journals aren't scored and the cylinder walls look good. Measured the cylinders in several spots and it all measured to 81.02. Even the pistons look clean.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...a58cde6079.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...85af14cf5e.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...7198630d53.jpg When I bought my car, the owner gave me some Supertech 11:1 pistons. Cleaned those up with some 00 steel wool, so I can ceramic coat the tops and skirts. Some before and after. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...2a7bc5f202.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...850ee34418.jpg Ordered the F7 control arms and Blox rear camber kit. The camber kit came in, F7 is having an issue with a bushing order so I'm waiting on those to ship from F7. |
Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
Love where this is going.
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Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
Finally got enough time in a day to swap the front subframe, GSR steering rack, suspension, and brakes for the new stuff. Also installed the rear Innovative engine mount. Took about 8 hours start to end.
Old crap. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...db3c69f757.jpg You can see the idiot previous owner put the outer tie rods on the wrong sides. The kind of stupid stuff I've been dealing with on this car. These would rub the rim at full lock so I've had to be sure I never went full lock. Subframe is out. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...3a3ac19553.jpg Compressed the suspension and tightened all the bolts. With rubber bushings this keeps them from being stressed at ride height. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...990bc3015c.jpg I have to take those forks out and paint them some time. Liking the new ride height. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...6ccad87128.jpg Found the shifter socket is jacked. There's about an inch of vertical play in the whole shifter. I'll be fixing that soon. Been wondering why the shifter has been feeling sloppy. Will be stringing an alignment tomorrow, there's some massive toe out as it sits. |
Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
Did an alignment today and then took the car for a drive. The GSR rack feels a whole lot heavier than the stock CX rack. Feels good, love the feedback I get now. Going to take a little while to get use to the effort it takes to steer now.
Going to have to mess with the dampers to make the ride a bit more smooth. Already have the rears to full soft, haven't messed with the fronts yet. Flushed the bakes with ATE Super Blue. Will be doing a hard bed-in of the brakes tomorrow. Pretty sure the front pads are going to be a little weak for my liking. installed the rear Innovative engine mount yesterday, and there's a huge difference from just that one. Much more low speed NVH, but I like every thing it's doing. Clutch engagement is more direct and shifting is a little more positive. Can't wait to get the other two in next weekend. |
Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
Your suspension install method and ride height using Koni yellows is straight up correct, y0.
As far as tuning the shocks goes....factory yellows are under damped after about 300 to 350LB springs in the rear. Closer to 300 in your case since its a hatch. Close your rear valve fully. I think I read you had 400+ LB rears? I have 400/440 in my ITR. It rides...badly even with the valve fully closed. And at full soft, you'd have to be spinless to ride in it. Remember, these shocks only adjust for REBOUND force. You're using the spring for tuning the ride harshness to a large extent. All you're doing with the shock is matching the rebound damping to the specific spring rate as well as possible to prevent it from bouncing around. You set and forget it for the most part since theyre already beyond the spring rate that they're made to actually handle. |
Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
Thanks for your input B.
Will put them at stiff and deal with it. Guessing I might be able to open the front valve a little if I feel like I need to balance things a little. I have 340f/430r. Right now I have no front sway bar, and a 23 mm rear bar, might pull the rear off and see how that rides. I'm not really a fan of sway bars. I have a race seat with no seat cushion, so I feel every little bump. Function>Form |
Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
Originally Posted by jdblock
(Post 50879054)
Thanks for your input B.
Will put them at stiff and deal with it. Guessing I might be able to open the front valve a little if I feel like I need to balance things a little. I have 340f/430r. Right now I have no front sway bar, and a 23 mm rear bar, might pull the rear off and see how that rides. I'm not really a fan of sway bars. I have a race seat with no seat cushion, so I feel every little bump. Function>Form As far as your question on camber curves....I don't have actual numbers, but the rear camber gain is going to be higher than the front. Honda started doing this early on. It promotes stability because having more rear camber than front will keep the car from over steering. On a stock civic, the front and rear will compress at similar rates while cornering or on a bump cycle. The front springs are stiffer...but the rear is much lighter. Secondarily, it helps with tire wear. With your spring and bar rates, I would maybe NOT correct the F/R camber relationship by adding a camber kit. Your front is going to compress much more than your rear. So you'll see more camber gain up front during cornering or on a bump cycle. I don't know if you plan to autocross or track this car. But rotation will not be an issue. You may even end up flipping the spring rates. But I'd do that after driving it initially. |
Re: From the Ground Up. Build Thread.
In for updates .. Great progress
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