StuckInTexas

iTrader: (1)

I've come to the conclusion that it will be one of these or the other.
I have a spare Y7 block and Y8 head laying around.
I want to keep it N/A and add a little kick to the engine.

I am considering:

1) stroking the motor out with a D17
2) keeping my P2E pistons
3) dropping in the PM6's

The compression ratings between the 3 would be
D17Y8 - 9.93
P2E - 9.96
PM6 - 10.34

Is spending several hundred more dollars justifiable to stroke it?

Or save that money and spend it elsewhere?

Long term my goal is only a fpr or tune, light port & polish, I/H/E, Delta 272 or 260 cam, adj cam gear, Y8 springs, mill job.

EDIT: I HAVE to rebuild my spare engine, so no boost or swap!

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Holy ****, right there in the rules sticky.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-civic-del-sol-1992-2000-1/rules-thread-titles-car-information-searching-trial-users-picture-posting-3002401/

We aren't here to make your decisions for you.

shotoutacc0rd

Jswap

Former User

I edited the OP to make it allowable.

HondaPartsHero

Honestly all that and you still won't be happy. Save for boost or swap

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Back with this same nonsense?
It's still not technical. It's a "Is it Worth It?" thread.
Do whatever you want. It will still be slow.

tony_2018

What ecu?

andoxviii

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, unfortunately this is the case. D-series aren't fast when they are naturally aspirated, no matter how much money you sink into them.

At the end of the day, these single cam Honda engines are grocery getters. And when you thrash them all day long to keep up with traffic, you just end up burning a ton of oil.

StuckInTexas

iTrader: (1)

Honestly I don't need and want all that power, my car to me seems quick enough (when i step on it). LOL. I know it's slow as **** compared to whats out there, but I wanna soup it up. I'm pretty handy, and I like working on my car.

A turbo build is just too much money all at once. Keeping it N/A I can do a little here and there. Money is tight, but I've got quite a bit saved up.
I want it to be extremely reliable, and I think I'll get it that N/A
I don't wanna be worrying about turbo's leaking, boost creeping, shaft play, couplers blowing, stuff like that. I want to leave my tools at home, not in my trunk. I go on road trips too, and driving far from home would make me nervous. And plus, if I ever move out of state or something, smog or passing OBD2 test would be less of a hassle and easier, probably not by much, but whatever.

I can get all those parts cheaply used or new. I think a turbo setup would cost me twice as much.
I think I can save money keeping the Y7 pistons, and just milling and decking instead.

Sourcing a Ebay turbo build still came out to $1,600. And that's not counting fab work.
Go-Autoworks... **** forget it. $3,000 plus.


I've read about 1 guy running it on a Y8 ecu with a high comper than what I'm planning (10.5 vs 9.9). But I'll be getting a chipped P28 and tuning it myself.
I am gonna by a ostrich, mtx-l and hulog. And just tweak my car hours at a time. I think i can do it. Make myself a det can and study study study.


You can get them to 130-150whp easily, and without a ton of money.
D series parts are cheap.
I'm not trying to race anybody or break track records.
It's for daily driving. If I wanted to race I'd drop a turbo, but I'm not.
Grocery getters, thats exactly what it is, souped up to handle more groceries hahaha.
I don't need to thrash it to keep up in traffic, at least not my Y8.
You only have 28whp more than me, should I spend $2,000 dollars for a B16a2 swap to achieve that?
I don't think so!
Your the one that has to rev the **** out of your engine with your flat torque curve.
D16's can be made quick, for cheap. A D17Y8 made 13 sec 1/4 mile pass on d-series, all motor!
http://www.d-series.org/forums/showc...7-n-build.html

andoxviii

iTrader: (1)

^^ eBay turbo kits are only fine if you replace the turbo, manifold, and wastegate with proper brand name, quality parts. All the eBay piping, oil lines, even intercoolers are fine though.

But at the end of the day, it will still be cheaper to boost than to build it N/A. And the end result will please you far more.

shotoutacc0rd

OP, you know of you open a credit card with 1 yr 0% APR and a high credit limit you can buy a nice turbo kit and pay it off little by little.

anyone else max out their credit card for car parts? I kno there's other ppl who have done it

andoxviii

iTrader: (1)

When did I say a B16A2 was fast? They are torqueless. The problem is that it is a 1.6L engine. No matter what, it will have very little torque without forced induction. And no where did I tell you to swap to a B16.

I would rather any 1.8L B-series than this B16A2. Even a B18B. At least it would have torque. My B16A2 feels exactly like my old D16Y7 and D15B VTEC until it hits 5000rpm. I have this engine because it came in my car from the factory.

This guy spent a ****-ton of time and money to build the internals of the engine. Don't kid yourself into thinking a D-series is fast without boost.

The bottom line:
I've owned 2 different D's, 2 different H's, and now a B. And I've driven them ALL even if I haven't owned it and drove it daily, including F20C and F22C S2000's, K-swapped hatches, etc. I've been in the Honda game for a long time. So stop trying to convince me, and everyone else, that your D-series will be any different than every other D-series out there.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm telling you this for your own good. So you don't waste time and money.

tony_2018

If you want to be different than I say go for it.

andoxvii - lets just sit back and see where this guys. He'll either do a build thread or just continue asking the same question of "which route should I go"? At the end of the day its his ride.

StuckInTexas

iTrader: (1)

Used Garrett turbos go for $400-600, add in a rebuild for a couple more. Bov, wastegate, new oil lines, I wouldn't trust a Ebay feed or drain line with my life.

Factor in a new clutch, flywheel and probably a tranny rebuild from all the stress put on it and that amount goes up


I really don't wanna sink in all that much money into.
Ultimate goal is

D16Y block bore honed and decked
Y8 Head milled, PnP, Y8 intake springs, Delta 260 or 272 cam with adj y8 cam gear
4-2-1 Ebay or DC header
2.5 SRI
2.25 or 2.5 catback exhaust with hi flow cat/test pipe
Y8 head gasket, full rebuild seal kit
Y8 Intake mani

I think I can hit 130-150whp with that or with more mods
(ls throttle body, port matched mani, higher compression, and a really good tune.)


You didn't, but you implied that I would have to beat on my motor, which I don't and it still seems quick to me driving around the city. Most of my speeds are 0-50, 70 on the highway. Exactly and with a stroker, that torque rating would go up, just not sure how much, and how much more than a slightly higher compression piston with a stock crank.



Have you read that thread before? He didn't spend a ton of money, he built that thing cheap! On a crazy low budget!
Ok. You've owned them all, but what did you do to the D's? Just basic bolt ons? Maybe?
I'm not trying to convince anybody, I just wanted to know if anybody knew the answer to my question. Either through experience or second hand knowledge.
I can do all that work to my car for less than $500, or $1000 for stroking it. That doesn't sound like a waste of time or money.
Especially considering I got quoted $2,800 for a B20 swap. And all I find where I'm at they are busted down B's not worth their weight, or heavily over priced imo
I'm sticking with what I got. Because I already have a spare long block Y7/Y8 mix. That is in great shape, that I got for cheap.

andoxviii

iTrader: (1)

Yeah...well he said he was tight for money. So it'd be a shame for him to waste the little bit that he has building a N/A D-series if he isn't going to be happy with it when he's done. But as you said, it's his car (and his money) to do with it what he pleases.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

A turbo kit is too much all at once, but an all-motor build isn't? OP, do you realize what you're getting into? You can't just slap a new crank in it and call it a day. Bearings. Gaskets. Seals. Rings. Machine work. These things all cost money, and by the time you're done, you won't be any noticeably faster. For that same $1000, you could boost your car, and rather than having 15 more BHP, you'll have 115 more. There's also nothing obligating you to do it all at once. Buy a couple parts at a time, and once you have everything, then boost it and go. If you want instant gratification, you either need to pay for it, or put together some **** that won't last a year.

You seriously need to sit back and do some reading. Your idea of where money will be spent is painfully convoluted, and in a number of places, flat out wrong.

StuckInTexas

iTrader: (1)

Why would you just slap in a crank? Whats the point of that?
The only reason why I would put in a crank is to build a stroker with the necessary pistons and rods.
There's no way a turbo build cost less than $1,000, I don't believe that. Flat out.
And 15bhp from what I've listed? Please. Seriously. That's only 13whp, from I/H/E stage 2 cam, pnp, with higher compression, fpr + tune. Your ridiculous if you think I believe that. Seriously.

I don't want to boost or swap!

There's no need for me to have 200whp, driving around everyday to work!
I'm rebuilding an engine because I've got 170k on mine, imagine what a fresh rebuild with those mods will feel like to me. Some of us stay N/A for a reason.
Cheap fast or reliable, pick 2, and I pick cheap and reliable.
With oe parts.

shotoutacc0rd

-facepalm- thats not how horsepower works. If you have a car with 125 crank horsepower and 100 wheel horsepower, then you add 100 crank horsepower, it'l have 200 wheel horsepower. It isn't a percentage, its a set number that the drivetran uses up.

now, OP, if you wanna talk about souping up a D series engine without boost, go to d-series.org..

if you want to jswap your civic, go to v6performance.net

if you want to boost your d or b swap or something, or you have a problem with failing emissions or something silly like that, stay here.

I'm not trying to be mean, I'm trying to help. Honestly I would not tell you if I did not care.

andoxviii

iTrader: (1)

Ugh. This thread hurts my head.

tony_2018

How did you calculate 150hp with just the parts you listed? I'm guessing you're using the p2p as a means to pass inspection and then continue using the chipped p28. Depending on the machine shop you can get this build done probably a little over 1k but I hope the outcome is what you want. Please do create a build thread.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

First off, you seem confused about what the "Cheap/Fast/Reliable" circle is about. If you don't want to make your car faster, it doesn't apply to you. If you want it to be cheap and reliable, leave it alone. Period. I don't have to imagine what a fresh rebuild after 170k would feel like - I've done it, and I know the old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Have you compression tested your motor? Is there anything wrong with it, or do you just feel like tinkering with it?

Stock CR on a D16Y8 is 9.6:1. If you think going from 9.6:1 to 9.93:1 will make a noticeable different in a 1.6L, you are sorely mistaken. You might get 15 BHP out of that, if you're lucky. Basic bolt-ons? Another 5, if you tune it. $500, plus the cost of a tune, for 5 BHP. Cam? There goes another $500, plus the cost of a tune. Flow work, there goes another $300+, plus the tune. FPR? Well, if you feel like wasting $100+ on a part that you under no circumstances need, by all means.

Not counting machine work, engine internals, or any of the stroker nonsense, you're already out $1400, plus the cost of a tune. Add in the cost of a crank, rods, pistons, bearings, seals, break-in oil, break-in dyno time, and a tune, and you're looking at $2000 for your little stroker, and on top of that, you're stuck hoping you didn't mess anything up during reassembly. All for a grand total of 50 BHP grand total, at most.

You don't have to believe me. I've done it, I've helped multiple people do it, and I've posted parts lists for doing it here on this forum. It's entirely possible to do.

At the end of the day, you're sticking your fingers in something that you don't need to be touching, ferretting with things you don't understand, wasting your money on something that you'll barely be able to notice, and wasting our time with your refusal to listen to what we're saying.

andoxviii

iTrader: (1)

I think even that is wishful thinking, tbh.

If your post doesn't change his mind, nothing will. At least we tried. I feel good about that.

shotoutacc0rd

OP is dum. For the money hes talking about spending he can go get a b18b and install it. That option is incredibly better than what hes considering.

OP, let me address this to you: do you know why a civic's hood can stick up at a 90 degree angle? Its so you can engine swap it. did you know the b series mounts right up? Did you see the thread "how to install your new engine without a cherry picker"?

andoxviii

iTrader: (1)

Hey now...not cool. And you mean "dumb". (lol...oh the irony)

What do you mean by "mounts right up"?

Going from D to B, he would need new mounts, driveshafts, shift linkage, ECU, transmission... I wouldn't call that "mounting right up".

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

Can be done cheaper. Bought a b20z from a towyard this week for $300 complete. Research. Read. Research. Troll for deals. Research. Read. Repeat.