Calling all K swap geniuses...............
07-08-2008, 07:27 AM
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Calling all K swap geniuses...............
As some of you know, I have a 1995 Civic EJ1 coupe with all………I mean all the trimmings.
It is a road car purely for street and show, and not a track, drag, or street racer. It is currently B18C1 powered with LS rotating assembly, 180WHP and 131WTQ, and already Cali smog legal with BAR sticker. The tranny is a DC2 ITR tranny with ITR 1st through 4th, LS 5th, and LS 4.266 final drive gear with a Quaife LSD. I get about 26 mpg city and 33 mpg hwy. I have kept the A/C, P/S, and cruise control.
Since I have already been through the BAR ref process with my B series, I mostly know the rules about how to legalize motor swaps in California.
When I built the car in 2005, I purposefully went with B series since I live in California and I also favor legalized motor swaps done the right way. No smog exemptions with propane or shady smog shops for me. The best info I had at the time was that K series into 92-95 Civics cannot become California smog legal due to inability to properly transfer ALL OBD components (including fuel lines and fuel tank components) from the K series. Therefore, I really have not read much about K series motors.
But let’s just suppose that I might want to do a bone stock K series swap (USDM K20A2 RSX Type S, 200-210 crank HP, 6 speed tranny) in the future and $$$ was no object. I would want the car to maintain the OEM theme and looks as much as possible.
I’ve been searching and searching for info. I’m deployed to Kuwait right now and for whatever reason, K20.org will not load up on the government networks.
CURRENT CALIFORNIA SMOG LEGALITY INFO
1) Are there any K swapped 92-95 EG/EJ Civics who has been successfully certified by the California BAR referees? If so, what exactly had to be done?
2) What ECU?
3) What harness?
4) I’ve heard that the OBD fuel tank components (fuel tank pressure sensor???) from the K series donor car must be transplanted over???
5) What do you have to do to run the K series deadhead fuel system in the EG/EJ Civic? Or can you still go with a fuel return system with a fuel pressure regulator and still pass the smog ref?
6) Does the stock K series exhaust manifold line up to the rest of the EG/EJ Civic exhaust B pipe? Or do you need to run a custom header? If a custom header, are there any that are CARB legal with CARB E.O. number?
7) Do the refs look at what K series tranny is being used?
8) If a K series cannot be legally certified through the state referee, then what measures do people in California take to register their K swapped Civic with California plates?
SMOG ISSUES ASIDE……………..
9) If a bone stock USDM K20A2 from the RSX Type S puts out 200-210 crank HP and 143 crank TQ, what are the typical WHP and WTQ dyno numbers? What is the normal percentage of drivetrain power losses for a K series?
10) What fuel economy numbers are people getting with the K20A2?
11) Much like the B series VTEC, I understand that K series has 2 cylinder head choices…………a low compression and a high compression head. The USDM K20A2 uses the high compression head??? Or is it the different pistons from different K series that determine K series compression ratios?
12) I understand that K series responds much better to N/A upgrades than B series? Can you get over 200 WHP from an N/A USDM K20A2 motor with normal upgrades?
TRANNY QUESTIONS………………
13) Is there freedom of choice for which tranny you run in a 92-95 EG/EJ Civic or are you stuck with the 5 speed from the Civic Si or base RSX?
14) Does the factory LSD work in all K series trannies regardless of the 5.0, 4.7, or 4.3 final drive ratios?
15) Can you change out 5th and 6th gears for lower ratio ones (’04-’08 TSX) for better highway fuel economy?
OTHER MECHANICAL QUESTIONS…………..
16) With motor mounts, I do not want harsh vibrations. Aside from Innovative mounts, are there any other mount kits that have little to no vibration for a street car?
17) I understand that I will need to have custom axles made? I would need to do that anyway since my JDM ITR 5 lug has the larger hubs from the Prelude or CRV.
18) For power steering, I have read that I would need to run a smaller pulley such as a Jackson racing pulley? I would then have to run a ’98-’01 Integra Type R power steering rack and crossmember? What is the difference between an ITR steering rack and OEM 95 EJ1 steering rack?
19) For the cable shifter mounting, Karcepts is one option I have found. What other shifter options are out there? Do these shifter kits allow for different short shifter choices?
20) I currently am running a GSR throttle cable. Will it still work?
21) For the OEM half sized radiator cooling system, I have read that I will have to cut off the radiator mounting tabs and weld them in place them on the drivers side.
22) For A/C, will the factory A/C condenser and fan mount to the original radiator location? Are there any prefabbed A/C lines available or would I have to have them all custom made?
23) For the clutch line, it looks like I will have to remove the factory lines from the firewall and passenger side framerail and go with a custom length one? Is there any prefabbed stainless steel clutch lines for K swapped Civics?
24) For the air intake, I just assume go with an aftermarket one with CARB E.O. number?
ELECTRICAL QUESTIONS…………….
25) Does the K series ECU plug right into the OBD1 dash harness plugs or do you need a jumper harness?
26) I have read that a factory K series ECU requires a matching key and key cylinder transplant to start the car???
27) How does the K series engine harness adapt to the dash harness from the passenger and driver side of the engine bay?
28) Will the EG/EJ factory cruise control still work?
29) Any issues with the speed sensor system and the EG/EJ speedo cluster?
30) Hondas of past have been notorious for inaccurate speedo and odometer readings. The only real remedies were to change wheel and tire sizes. With the stock sized wheels and tires, has there been any speedo or odometer accuracy issues with the 2002-2005 RSX Type S?
Modified by Toy Civic at 8:34 AM 7/8/2008
Modified by Toy Civic at 8:39 AM 7/8/2008
It is a road car purely for street and show, and not a track, drag, or street racer. It is currently B18C1 powered with LS rotating assembly, 180WHP and 131WTQ, and already Cali smog legal with BAR sticker. The tranny is a DC2 ITR tranny with ITR 1st through 4th, LS 5th, and LS 4.266 final drive gear with a Quaife LSD. I get about 26 mpg city and 33 mpg hwy. I have kept the A/C, P/S, and cruise control.
Since I have already been through the BAR ref process with my B series, I mostly know the rules about how to legalize motor swaps in California.
When I built the car in 2005, I purposefully went with B series since I live in California and I also favor legalized motor swaps done the right way. No smog exemptions with propane or shady smog shops for me. The best info I had at the time was that K series into 92-95 Civics cannot become California smog legal due to inability to properly transfer ALL OBD components (including fuel lines and fuel tank components) from the K series. Therefore, I really have not read much about K series motors.
But let’s just suppose that I might want to do a bone stock K series swap (USDM K20A2 RSX Type S, 200-210 crank HP, 6 speed tranny) in the future and $$$ was no object. I would want the car to maintain the OEM theme and looks as much as possible.
I’ve been searching and searching for info. I’m deployed to Kuwait right now and for whatever reason, K20.org will not load up on the government networks.
CURRENT CALIFORNIA SMOG LEGALITY INFO
1) Are there any K swapped 92-95 EG/EJ Civics who has been successfully certified by the California BAR referees? If so, what exactly had to be done?
2) What ECU?
3) What harness?
4) I’ve heard that the OBD fuel tank components (fuel tank pressure sensor???) from the K series donor car must be transplanted over???
5) What do you have to do to run the K series deadhead fuel system in the EG/EJ Civic? Or can you still go with a fuel return system with a fuel pressure regulator and still pass the smog ref?
6) Does the stock K series exhaust manifold line up to the rest of the EG/EJ Civic exhaust B pipe? Or do you need to run a custom header? If a custom header, are there any that are CARB legal with CARB E.O. number?
7) Do the refs look at what K series tranny is being used?
8) If a K series cannot be legally certified through the state referee, then what measures do people in California take to register their K swapped Civic with California plates?
SMOG ISSUES ASIDE……………..
9) If a bone stock USDM K20A2 from the RSX Type S puts out 200-210 crank HP and 143 crank TQ, what are the typical WHP and WTQ dyno numbers? What is the normal percentage of drivetrain power losses for a K series?
10) What fuel economy numbers are people getting with the K20A2?
11) Much like the B series VTEC, I understand that K series has 2 cylinder head choices…………a low compression and a high compression head. The USDM K20A2 uses the high compression head??? Or is it the different pistons from different K series that determine K series compression ratios?
12) I understand that K series responds much better to N/A upgrades than B series? Can you get over 200 WHP from an N/A USDM K20A2 motor with normal upgrades?
TRANNY QUESTIONS………………
13) Is there freedom of choice for which tranny you run in a 92-95 EG/EJ Civic or are you stuck with the 5 speed from the Civic Si or base RSX?
14) Does the factory LSD work in all K series trannies regardless of the 5.0, 4.7, or 4.3 final drive ratios?
15) Can you change out 5th and 6th gears for lower ratio ones (’04-’08 TSX) for better highway fuel economy?
OTHER MECHANICAL QUESTIONS…………..
16) With motor mounts, I do not want harsh vibrations. Aside from Innovative mounts, are there any other mount kits that have little to no vibration for a street car?
17) I understand that I will need to have custom axles made? I would need to do that anyway since my JDM ITR 5 lug has the larger hubs from the Prelude or CRV.
18) For power steering, I have read that I would need to run a smaller pulley such as a Jackson racing pulley? I would then have to run a ’98-’01 Integra Type R power steering rack and crossmember? What is the difference between an ITR steering rack and OEM 95 EJ1 steering rack?
19) For the cable shifter mounting, Karcepts is one option I have found. What other shifter options are out there? Do these shifter kits allow for different short shifter choices?
20) I currently am running a GSR throttle cable. Will it still work?
21) For the OEM half sized radiator cooling system, I have read that I will have to cut off the radiator mounting tabs and weld them in place them on the drivers side.
22) For A/C, will the factory A/C condenser and fan mount to the original radiator location? Are there any prefabbed A/C lines available or would I have to have them all custom made?
23) For the clutch line, it looks like I will have to remove the factory lines from the firewall and passenger side framerail and go with a custom length one? Is there any prefabbed stainless steel clutch lines for K swapped Civics?
24) For the air intake, I just assume go with an aftermarket one with CARB E.O. number?
ELECTRICAL QUESTIONS…………….
25) Does the K series ECU plug right into the OBD1 dash harness plugs or do you need a jumper harness?
26) I have read that a factory K series ECU requires a matching key and key cylinder transplant to start the car???
27) How does the K series engine harness adapt to the dash harness from the passenger and driver side of the engine bay?
28) Will the EG/EJ factory cruise control still work?
29) Any issues with the speed sensor system and the EG/EJ speedo cluster?
30) Hondas of past have been notorious for inaccurate speedo and odometer readings. The only real remedies were to change wheel and tire sizes. With the stock sized wheels and tires, has there been any speedo or odometer accuracy issues with the 2002-2005 RSX Type S?
Modified by Toy Civic at 8:34 AM 7/8/2008
Modified by Toy Civic at 8:39 AM 7/8/2008
07-08-2008, 07:42 AM
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Re: Calling all K swap geniuses............... (Toy Civic)
well written I would love to see some of this info 2 because even though i live in N.J. going threw state inspection is really difficult here.
There are so many shady places thou to by a state sticker it makes it easy but for once I would like to take my car to inspection and see what happens!
I'm don't have a k series but I was looking into it but mechanically I can answer some of your questions.
There are so many shady places thou to by a state sticker it makes it easy but for once I would like to take my car to inspection and see what happens!
I'm don't have a k series but I was looking into it but mechanically I can answer some of your questions.
07-08-2008, 07:55 AM
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Re: Calling all K swap geniuses............... (slvrcvc93)
it will be difficult to bar not only because of the fuel less return system but because in cali when you bar a obd2 motor the hook up and check the ecu so the will check for the emobilizer
07-08-2008, 07:58 AM
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Re: Calling all K swap geniuses............... (superfast666)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by superfast666 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it will be difficult to bar not only because of the fuel less return system but because in cali when you bar a obd2 motor the hook up and check the ecu so the will check for the emobilizer </TD></TR></TABLE>
What does the immobilizer have to do with smog? The only thing I can think of is that when people disable the immobilizer, the ECU is usually messed with elsewhere.
What does the immobilizer have to do with smog? The only thing I can think of is that when people disable the immobilizer, the ECU is usually messed with elsewhere.
07-08-2008, 08:26 AM
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Re: Calling all K swap geniuses............... (Toy Civic)
18) For power steering, I have read that I would need to run a smaller pulley such as a Jackson racing pulley? I would then have to run a ’98-’01 Integra Type R power steering rack and crossmember? What is the difference between an ITR steering rack and OEM 95 EJ1 steering rack?
The difference is the position off the power steering lines where they come off the rack The lines are I believe on the ej position to the left where on the Integra there position to the right giving the K series more room for the engine. (possibly also The line your going to use for the power steering might be affected by this)
20) I currently am running a GSR throttle cable. Will it still work?
no because remember the intake manifold on the k is in the front and it faces the opposite direction.
23) For the clutch line, it looks like I will have to remove the factory lines from the firewall and passenger side framerail and go with a custom length one? Is there any prefabbed stainless steel clutch lines for K swapped Civics?
Hasport makes a complete swap kit for the K they are usally the first to do it all
24) For the air intake, I just assume go with an aftermarket one with CARB E.O. number?
I could be wrong on this but you need the one from a 03 si its the one that still uses a throttle cable and not the electronic throttle
25) Does the K series ECU plug right into the OBD1 dash harness plugs or do you need a jumper harness?
Does not plug in at all your going to need a Jumper Harness or a K-Pro ECU
26) I have read that a factory K series ECU requires a matching key and key cylinder transplant to start the car???
It does if you use the jumper harness if you have the k-pro ecu you dont.
27) How does the K series engine harness adapt to the dash harness from the passenger and driver side of the engine bay?
This is part of the Hasport kit its a sub harness that attaches to your current one.
29) Any issues with the speed sensor system and the EG/EJ speedo cluster?
Also part of the Hasport kit.
Here is the link
http://hasport.com/shop/produc...d=119
The difference is the position off the power steering lines where they come off the rack The lines are I believe on the ej position to the left where on the Integra there position to the right giving the K series more room for the engine. (possibly also The line your going to use for the power steering might be affected by this)
20) I currently am running a GSR throttle cable. Will it still work?
no because remember the intake manifold on the k is in the front and it faces the opposite direction.
23) For the clutch line, it looks like I will have to remove the factory lines from the firewall and passenger side framerail and go with a custom length one? Is there any prefabbed stainless steel clutch lines for K swapped Civics?
Hasport makes a complete swap kit for the K they are usally the first to do it all
24) For the air intake, I just assume go with an aftermarket one with CARB E.O. number?
I could be wrong on this but you need the one from a 03 si its the one that still uses a throttle cable and not the electronic throttle
25) Does the K series ECU plug right into the OBD1 dash harness plugs or do you need a jumper harness?
Does not plug in at all your going to need a Jumper Harness or a K-Pro ECU
26) I have read that a factory K series ECU requires a matching key and key cylinder transplant to start the car???
It does if you use the jumper harness if you have the k-pro ecu you dont.
27) How does the K series engine harness adapt to the dash harness from the passenger and driver side of the engine bay?
This is part of the Hasport kit its a sub harness that attaches to your current one.
29) Any issues with the speed sensor system and the EG/EJ speedo cluster?
Also part of the Hasport kit.
Here is the link
http://hasport.com/shop/produc...d=119
07-08-2008, 09:23 AM
#6
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Re: Calling all K swap geniuses............... (Toy Civic)
I feel bad for you California guys. Here in NY, I can't fail an OBD I vehicle if it has a swapped engine. OBD I cars here get away with murder...
07-08-2008, 10:34 AM
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Re: Calling all K swap geniuses............... (JDM EJ2)
I remember a thread from about a year or so ago someone had a BAR'd Kseries. It was a pain in the ***... From what I remember he had the dash (for the immobilizer, I don't remember why you need it, but you do), swapped over the entire fuel tank because of the fuel return system...
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