blackeg

So my b16 is smoking like a chimney. Compression check is 210-220psi and the leakdown is 6-8%. There is oil in cyls 1 and 2 pistons and those plugs are black and sooted up.

Last summer we figured it had to be valve seals and replaced them. Then the car sat over the winter and is smoking again.

Its gotta be the valveseals since the comp and leakdown are good right?

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Could be oil control rings or improperly installed valve seals. Those parts also start to "stick" if the car sits around on old oil. Did you change the oil before storage? Not that 1 season old valve seals should do that....but if they were installed incorrectly or they were not so great to start with, then I could see it.

What brand of valve seal?

jdmjunkieXL

Could be bad seals or guides

hondamark35

I've seen engines that had good compression but let oil past the rings.

two that I've had apart recently had carbon packed into the oil control rings and clogging the "bleed" holes inside the ring groove that help drain that oil off.

after cleaning it all up like new, replacing the rings and a quick hone job, neither engine uses oil anymore and both only had minor increases in compression (still in typical range before and after). also nothing was touched in the head, only bottom end refresh. the first now has close to 30k miles on it and has used 1/2 qt. over the past 10k miles. the other only has a few thousand on it.

a possibility to consider.

blackeg

Thanks for the quick replies.

The seals are super tech.
The oil was changed before storage but not after. It burns about a quart every 500 miles so its always fresh lol.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was control rings all gummed up but would that have oil accumulate on the piston top or just burn as ut entered the cylinder. ..

My other thought is the guides are so beat the vakve stem flops around and already wore out the seal....

blackeg

alright, since i have dozens of extra valve seals lying around in my oem parts boxes, im replacing the ones in those 2 cylinders today. ill give it a few miles to try and burn out the residual oil in the cyl and then see if it made a difference. if not then id have to assume oil control rings.


is there a way to "degunk" those rings without disassembly? would seafoam clean that out?

i dont really care much about this motor, as its getting removed for an lsvtec. i new it smoked when i got and and paid accordingly. however, if i can salvage it for a spare in case something goes wrong with the replacement engine i wouldnt mind. it would save me a few hundred bucks from going to pick up another jdm b20

hondamark35

I was thinking about this earlier... seafoam in the oil maybe. or wash down the cylinders with some seafoam or similar through the sparkplug tubes, let it sit over night, add a little oil directly to each cylinder before start-up, run it for a few days and change the oil. this would help the seafoam soak the build up on the rings directly in high concentration then be flushed out and removed durring the oil change.

try at your own risk! this is just a theory, i haven't tested this yet on my own.

In that case, I wouldn't worry too much about the smoking for now. keep the oil topped off and re-ring it when you swap it out. should make a good spare if you give it a thorough inspection at rebuild time.

blackeg

Seals are replaced. Still smokes. If i engine brake to a stop the cloud of smoke passes the car into the intrrsection lol. If i just throw it in neutral its not bad. Not much smoke when accelerating. Typical valve seal behavior. Some of the exhaust valves had a good amount of play. Like a dumbass I lost a keeper into the block so I dropped the pan to get it. Not a spec of metal anywhere in the pan. The cyl walls werent marred up and it looked pretty normal for 140k miles.

My opinion is the head needs new guides

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

It could also be coming through your spark plug tube seals. Did you replace them, or just reuse the old ones?

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Overfill?

blackeg

hey guys,

i did have spark plug tube seals as a possiblity, but i check and its dry all the way down.

there is oil on the bottom few threads of the plug however. perhaps the oil is coming through the valve seals and running along the bottom of the head getting on the plug that way....


anyone replaced valve guides in the past? is it an expensive thing between parts and machine shop labor? my boosted motor has loose guides as well, but since i dont drive it much ive just been replacing the seals once a year and its a working fix for the moment

jdmjunkieXL

The machine shop i go to charge $175 for disassemble,clean,inspect,3 angle,resurface,assemble. Brought in a gsr head with bad guides they charged me $8 a guide it needed 4. he charged me $40 to install the 4 guides. when that gsr was running with bad guides it ran like **** was slow with fat clouds of smoke it was my buddys and he had to put about a quart or 2 every morning it was bad

TomCat39

I've been thinking about this and I've had buddies tell me diesel is really good at cleaning up carbon and gunk from parts. They say soak an engine block or cylinder head in diesel for a day or two and it comes out sparkling clean.

Was wondering if there could be any complications if you put diesel in the cylinders for a few days (without ever running the car) then drain the oil out, maybe even flush a little oil through the system when draining then refill with new oil and filter and then run the car.

The diesel that seeps past and through the rings, is there any other areas it can go besides the oil pan? Is there any likelihood of the diesel seeping into any of the bearings or any other unwanted places (wrist pins?) to cause issue until the oil pumps through and washes it out after start-up?

Just wondering if this might be a feasible cleanup method without ripping the motor apart.

Or am I thinking up a very bad idea (this is my suspicion)?

blackeg

im finding this to be a pretty common issue with b series motors that smoke. damn guides get sloppy and it all falls apart. 8 bucks a guide isnt bad if you ask me. did u replace with oem or aftermarket bronze. i hear that the aftermarket guides dont last long maybe like 40-50k miles which blows because i drive like 20k miles a year on this car.

tomcat, that is quite an interesting idea. i know that i have used kerosene in the past to clean **** and its pretty darn close to diesel...

jdmjunkieXL

it was aftermarket the machinist got them through his distributor

shotoutacc0rd

They're not hard to replace IMO, pneumatic hammer gets the job done pretty damn easily. I used a 4$ aftermarket guide lol

TomCat39

Did you heat the head up?

shotoutacc0rd

Only had it baking in the sun, froze the guide tho

visiblystealthy

iTrader: (1)

place a tablespoon of marvel mystery oil in each cylinder and let them set for a day or two. Put MMO in your oil also. This should help to loosen up the oil control rings if they are stuck/sticking.

blackeg

hmm, i do have half a bottle in the garage somewhere