shawnhayes

Topic recently locked.

Do NOT under any circumstances screw around with freon gas. Burning this stuff can produce phosphene gas, a toxic gas used to kill WWI soldiers on the battlefield. A major concern in the WTC disaster was perhaps phosphene gas floating around (a tall structure takes a lot of Freon to air condition).

Don't mess around at ALL with freon. It can kill when burned, and maim even when released onto your skin (can freeze it instantaneously). Don't mess around. Don't be stupid.

Shawn

DragII

damn, thanks shawn.....you should have IM'd me, I'd have unlocked it for you to add that.

DragII

BTW, freon isn't used in car A/C systems anymore is it.

shawnhayes

Freon was a generic term applied to the original chloroflurocarbon refridgerant first pioneered many, many years ago (1940's I believe). It literally was a shortening of "freeze on" (WWII acronyms weren't very imaginative).

Nothing since then has been "Freon", but the name has stuck. All refridgerant chemicals (R-3, R-4, R-22, R-12, R-134a, etc. etc. etc.) are referred to as "Freon" in common usage. Each is a distinctly different chemical, with distinctly different applications. R-12 was (and still is) the most efficient thermal transfer chemical best suited for small cooling applications (i.e. car air conditioners, and even very small refridgerators). It is also very easy to contain (i.e. friendly to petroleum based seals and also to metals). Unfortunately, the high chlorine and florine content make it VERY environmentally undesirable. The high stability of phosphene is just one of them. A toxic, HEAVY gas (i.e. doesn't "float" away high into the atmosphere) that burns the eyes and lungs of animals exposed to it.

Anyway, nobody has used actual "freon" since the 1950's, but all the chemicals used as transfer agents are still stuck with the name.

Shawn

stevecockrill

Side note...did you know that the guy who invented CFC's also invented lead additives as an anti-knock agent in gasoline?? He struck out environmentally on all counts, wouldn't you say?

Steve

EBP_SI

fnally someone who understands the danger in playing with freon...I'm an A/C mechanic and when i read all these posts with people talkign about dumb things like using freon instead of NOS, i just want to punch them for being so dumb.
i think this is worthy of a sticky

DragII

serious question...I "accidentally" discharged my R-whatever when I was removing my ac...it spewed that nasty **** everywhere....I tried not to breath any of it...but how harmfull is it, when not being burned, or applied onto skin?

shawnhayes

But he hit a home run on efficiency. Both the original CFC's and lead were super at what they were intended to do. No one understood the environmental consequences of what they were doing at the time. I believe that we, too, often will have no idea of the true environmental impact of our behavior until many years from now.

Just my $0.02.

Shawn

shawnhayes

Not very harmful, but still quite a potential danger. Suspected of being at least a mild carcinogen if exposed to it for long periods of time, but NO PROOF OF THAT whatsoever.

On an immediate 1-5 scale (five being the most toxic) with no burning, and no direct application, it rates a one in risk assesment.

Shawn (oh geez, I guess I have to say it - sorry guys)
Shawn M. Hayes, M.D.

Disclaimer - above NOT to be considered valid medical advice. If you have questions, please visit local physician.

Sorry about that. Damn lawyers.

DragII

lol, I didn't get sick or anything, I was just curious.

thanks shawn MD

joeseph

Good info, I just signed up to take a course on A/C systems at the local community college.

shawnhayes

Sorry, try not to reveal that much around here, but when I'm dishing out "health related" items, the lawyers tell me that I should identify myself and give a disclaimer, when it's not in a contractual arrangement. Damn lawyers. Sorry.


[Modified by shawnhayes, 11:16 PM 7/15/2002]

Mista Bone

so if your only release the gas on a cold engine you are ok??????

You, but not your grand children.


Every have a R22 fight?


Just keep the freon away from open flame.


And to think we wasted a 30 lb. botle of R12 in one quarter on a car A/C demo project. The teacher wanted us to make a head gasket for the FoMoCo compressor. Evac/Fill all went good. But the gasket would always leak between low and high sides.

BTW This was in 1984-1985, way before recovery units appeared.

B18C5-EH2

I'll be the one to add some humor to this one:

What about the tards that asked if they could just route their A/C vents to their intakes?

Do they not realize that having the A/C on in the first place will rob way more horsepower than colder air will give back to it?



On and good info Dr. Hayes!

shawnhayes

I try hard as hell to not reveal that about myself. People think you're posing if you post "MD" with everything. When I'm talking about health related items, though, they tell me I have to.

Sorry.

Shawn