B16A3/Y21 Second gear STRANGENESS
#1
Honda-Tech Member
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B16A3/Y21 Second gear STRANGENESS
I have a del Sol VTEC with the original engine and trans. I'm having a very strange issue and am having a difficult time diagnosing it. It started when I would take right turns at any significant g-force, at the apex second gear would pop out, but only partially as shifter stayed in position. It's gotten worse and now happens almost every time I try to shift into second but it doesn't seem like a synchro - the shifter notches into position properly and feels normal, but when I let out the clutch pedal I hear grinding as if the collar is just brushing the gear. All other gears function perfectly. It seems like a linkage issue, and I'm wondering what to try before I start looking into a trans rebuild.. Any thoughts?
#2
Honda-Tech Member
Re: B16A3/Y21 Second gear STRANGENESS
How much "slop" is in the linkage? If you put it in 2nd gear, are you able to move it left/right a fair bit?
Sounds like the bushings for linkage and shifter may just be worn out/degraded.
Sounds like the bushings for linkage and shifter may just be worn out/degraded.
#3
Fish Twig
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Re: B16A3/Y21 Second gear STRANGENESS
You talk of apex corners and g-force but you don't know how to diagnose this problem or where to begin? How is that even possible? youtube videos?
#4
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Re: B16A3/Y21 Second gear STRANGENESS
There is a normal amount of left/right play, no different than it was 100,000 miles ago. the shifter notches into position but doesn't seem to grab the actual gear. It will go into gear only if I'm very careful with letting the clutch out, it's hard to describe but I can elaborate if need be
#5
Honda-Tech Member
Re: B16A3/Y21 Second gear STRANGENESS
There is a normal amount of left/right play, no different than it was 100,000 miles ago. the shifter notches into position but doesn't seem to grab the actual gear. It will go into gear only if I'm very careful with letting the clutch out, it's hard to describe but I can elaborate if need be
#6
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Re: B16A3/Y21 Second gear STRANGENESS
Yeah it seems like its a linkage issue, thanks for your help. The motor mounts are definitely starting to go so I'll start with the bushings and mounts and see where that gets me. Any ideas on why right turns would affect it? I've read about the counter shaft bearings walking out on D-series transmissions causing a similar issue but the B-series trans has a plate to prevent this
#7
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Re: B16A3/Y21 Second gear STRANGENESS
The car is bone stock and has been without mechanical fault until now so I've never had to take it fully apart, just hoped to be enlightened by seasoned Honda mechanics like yourself before going ***** deep in my daily
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#8
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Re: B16A3/Y21 Second gear STRANGENESS
I've never seen shifter bushings cause a problem, even when they were essentially non-existent. Even motor mounts shouldn't be causing a problem unless maybe all of them were broken. All I can think of would be a worn out/damaged 2nd gear synchro spring or possibly an absolutely destroyed top countershaft bearing allowing the countershaft to lift slightly.
#9
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Re: B16A3/Y21 Second gear STRANGENESS
It's very strange, when it actually engages in second, it's problem free until I left off the gas in the middle of a right turn. Am I mistaken that a failed synchro wouldn't allow the shifter to notch into place?
#11
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Re: B16A3/Y21 Second gear STRANGENESS
Interesting, have you ever seen just a failed synchro spring? And I don't think the counter shaft bearing failed, when engaging the clutch in second the shifter does move forward a tad when it "pops out" which indicates the collar is being pushed, and also the issue is isolated to second gear..
#12
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Re: B16A3/Y21 Second gear STRANGENESS
Usually when the spring is bad the sleeve and hub and banged up as well, and if it's been left long enough the engagement teeth one the gear itself Any of those those things, along with a bad syncro spring will normally cause the transmission to grind shifting into that gear as well. Rarely do I see synchros worn to the service limit, usually everything else goes bad first.
#13
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Re: B16A3/Y21 Second gear STRANGENESS
Usually when the spring is bad the sleeve and hub and banged up as well, and if it's been left long enough the engagement teeth one the gear itself Any of those those things, along with a bad syncro spring will normally cause the transmission to grind shifting into that gear as well. Rarely do I see synchros worn to the service limit, usually everything else goes bad first.
#15
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Re: B16A3/Y21 Second gear STRANGENESS
Yep, although it is possible the 1st/2nd shift fork is bent. I had this happen before where I bent the 3rd/4th fork on a D-series trans coming out of 2nd trying to ram it into 3rd at 7000 rpm and forgot to push the clutch in. It popped out of 3rd every so often after that until I finally pulled it apart and replaced the fork.
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