B16a OBD1 into 99' Civic swap with some "hiccups"
01-04-2007, 03:29 PM
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B16a OBD1 into 99' Civic swap with some "hiccups"
A note for the casual observer...this is a fairly long post. If you are not interested in the nitty-gritty of a long story of my engine swap please move on now 
.
Hey guys, this is a project myself and a friend have been working on for over a year now(thanks to long hours at work). I started out with a B16a OBD1 engine I got from a co-worker. It was an as-is buy with the mileage being said that it was less than 5k.
I took the engine and had the block taking to a machine shop in order to install some Darton sleeves, an Eagle stroker kit(took it out to an 18) and to microbalance the lower end. While that was going on I was putting Skunk2 turbo cams into the head and replaced the valve springs with Skunk2's sturdier turbo application springs. I bought new headbolts on the reccomendation not to re-use them. The head gasket I used was a performance OEM product from BAP/GEON(for those that don't know it's a aftermarket/stock car parts franchise in Norfolk, VA and down in FL). At the guidance of my mechanically inclined friend we did a valve clearance check using some clay to make sure that the new cams wouldn't cause the valves to strike the pistons. It passed with flying colors. We got the engine into the car and commenced the fun part of the work.....getting the electrical wired in from an OBD1 ECU(p30 i think...I'd have to look at the tag again) to an OBD2 harness(I wanted to be able to plug directly into the cabin electronics without having to go crazy under the dash) then from that OBD2 harness to the OBD1 engine. As you can guess that was a nightmare at first...until I remembered that the Haynes manual covered both models(the OBD1 '95 version as well as my Civic's '99 harness wire color coding).
One thing I didn't mention yet was that I used a jumper harness to go from the OBD1 ECU to my OBD2 connectors on the engine harness. I also took 2 extra wires out from the older engine harness which I wasn't using in order to wire in the VTEC which ended up being spliced into the jumper harness vice into a pin for the engine harness. Similarly I used another 2 wires to get the power and the rpm lines from the dizzy to splice into the jumper harness again. Just by seeing any splicing on a electrical system that must be fairly intolerant of deviance from set voltages I was rather queasy with this whole setup but didn't know of any way to have a full engine wire harness custom made for this difficult engine swap.
So that got done..I rechecked all my wiring to make sure the crimps were good and the splices were through the right wires etc. That done I finished putting the rest of the engine compartment back together...power steering pump, cruise control, the fuse box/battery holder... you get the point. With everything re-installed I spliced in the ECU piggy-back E-manage that I intended on using once the engine was broken in and the turbo was good to go(I only mention this so you know that electrically this setup was modified beyond what it took to do the OBD1 to 2 conversions). Ahh....a couple more items I haven't mentioned yet which I think might need further scrutiny once I get to starting the engine for the first time.... I also have the intake mani replaced with the Skunk2 performance intake as well as the throttle body replaced. Unfortunately I didn't pay attention to what the stock throttle body looked like so I'm not sure if the MAP sensor normally installed differently than the D16y7 MAP sensor. I ended up using the D16y7 MAP sensor thinking that it wouldn't make a difference which I used, and that I had no means of connecting the hose lines on the b16 MAP to the new throttle body in any manner.
With all that said...the oil was added and the crank turned over to ensure we got some oil throughout the engine before starting it. Everything was checked a final time and then the moment arrived to finally start this baby up! When the ignition was keyed...the engine gurgled...but with some assistance from the throttle it revved up quite nicely. It sounded normal for not having the exhaust in place yet...and held a particular rpm steadily while below 2000...just to note before taking it on the road I never let the rpm go above 4000 for the inital 30 min of starting it up. As I mentioned above it took some extra gas to keep the engine going. As soon as the gas pedal was released the engine would gurgle down to a small rumbling spurt and cut itself off. I assume that this is due to the IACV and/or computer's response to the sensor. My friend thought it might be the intial setting of the cable going from the gas pedal to the throttle body, so we started up the car again and he adjusted the throttle body inital setting until the engine stayed rumbling between 750 and 1000 without my assistance behind the wheel. Secondly he also played with the MAP adjustments that can be done with the Profec-e01 that plugs into the e-manage(again i'm sorry for even mentioning the turbo parts...but want to give you the full picture incase I need to talk to the FI guru's for that stuff). After several 2 hour nights of doing this just so the engine got some brake-in time as I waited for the power steering pump bracket to show up(this was the only thing preventing us from taking out to the side streets for some initial testing and brake-in) I finally got the bracket and installed the pump and belts(let me tell you it took forever to get the right belt size for the a/c and the p/s).
The first ride around the block was jumpy....the engine or perhaps computer wasn't liking the air/fuel mixture being provided to it so the car was softly lurching as we rode along(I can't think of a better term..it was almost as if you repeatly hit the brakes softly so your head swayed back and forth as you go down the road). There were no sounds of mechanical trouble and no check engine light so far.
After doing one loop my friend gave me the honors and let me take the car out for round 2. This time he again had the MAP adjustments up in order to play around with the air/fuel mix at various rpms.. after 15 min or so of this and several other nights of playing around with it...he got the engine to smoothly run from 1000-4000 rpm while the car was moving along at a normal residential speed. We even managed to take the car to a gas station a good mile or so down the road without any issues. The first major problem though...was going above 4000 rpm. Luckily this happened while doing another run around the side streets of the neighborhood because the moment I went above 4000 the check engine light came in and the engine died down to a gurgle...I had no response to opening or shutting the throttle body. It was as if the ECU put the engine on lock-down...I don't know the technical side of this ECU at all so please help me here....The only way we got that to clear was to turn off the car completely..wait a little bit and restart the engine...which it would do as before with no problems and no check engine light.
We decided to make sure it wasn't a fluke and tried it again near a stop sign...the same thing happened.
We thought it might be a VTEC problem as we hadn't yet been able to get it to actuate...even though an option on E-manage showed that we should be able to force it to activate the VTEC at lower rpms..which we set to 2000 in order to make sure we could break in the engine at the more stressful level of the VTEC cam lobes. That was about where we were at when I came back after a long work day to be told the head gasket was blown. Trusting my friend to his knowledge and experience on this I believed him. He had already pulled the head and put a new head gasket in there and re-installed the head with the same head bolts from before.
Upon restarting the engine it would through a check engine light right off the start...and sounded horrible. Unfortunately I went through some shift-work at this time and was unable to be there for any further attempts at figuring out the problem on our own. I am currently the sole man on the project and have no experience with engine work...only a basic knowledge of all the parts and how they work. The other day I turned it on just to see how bad it was...I didn't even want to leave it rumbling at me for more than a second...it sounded like a dying engine that was having a tough time turning over. Again I'm no expert on the sounds an engine makes when it's not firing in a particular cylinder or causing any other problems...but it definately sounds bad.
If you need more information please ask me a specific question so I can try to focus on looking for a particular problem I might have missed. I haven't been able to figure out what the check engine light is due to since I have no means for jumpering the connector mentioned in another thread that allows you to read the number of blinks on it...but with some assisstance I could put something together for that.
Is this a problem beyond my ability to replace parts/make adjustments to the hardware?
Could the ECU not have the correct fuel maps etc? Or perhaps this piggy-back is a problem?
I would really appreciate any expert info you guys have. As it is I am currently looking into a day I would have available to take the car into a performance shop to have them take it out of my hands. If any of you know a good shop near Jacksonville, FL that I could tow the car to I would be grateful...so far my efforts via the phone book and online haven't given me good results.
Thank you for putting up with this long ramble...I am so close to getting this car working and don't want to throw out all the work and money I've put it in this beauty..even if I could still sell a lot of the parts used in the car.
.Hey guys, this is a project myself and a friend have been working on for over a year now(thanks to long hours at work). I started out with a B16a OBD1 engine I got from a co-worker. It was an as-is buy with the mileage being said that it was less than 5k.
I took the engine and had the block taking to a machine shop in order to install some Darton sleeves, an Eagle stroker kit(took it out to an 18) and to microbalance the lower end. While that was going on I was putting Skunk2 turbo cams into the head and replaced the valve springs with Skunk2's sturdier turbo application springs. I bought new headbolts on the reccomendation not to re-use them. The head gasket I used was a performance OEM product from BAP/GEON(for those that don't know it's a aftermarket/stock car parts franchise in Norfolk, VA and down in FL). At the guidance of my mechanically inclined friend we did a valve clearance check using some clay to make sure that the new cams wouldn't cause the valves to strike the pistons. It passed with flying colors. We got the engine into the car and commenced the fun part of the work.....getting the electrical wired in from an OBD1 ECU(p30 i think...I'd have to look at the tag again) to an OBD2 harness(I wanted to be able to plug directly into the cabin electronics without having to go crazy under the dash) then from that OBD2 harness to the OBD1 engine. As you can guess that was a nightmare at first...until I remembered that the Haynes manual covered both models(the OBD1 '95 version as well as my Civic's '99 harness wire color coding).
One thing I didn't mention yet was that I used a jumper harness to go from the OBD1 ECU to my OBD2 connectors on the engine harness. I also took 2 extra wires out from the older engine harness which I wasn't using in order to wire in the VTEC which ended up being spliced into the jumper harness vice into a pin for the engine harness. Similarly I used another 2 wires to get the power and the rpm lines from the dizzy to splice into the jumper harness again. Just by seeing any splicing on a electrical system that must be fairly intolerant of deviance from set voltages I was rather queasy with this whole setup but didn't know of any way to have a full engine wire harness custom made for this difficult engine swap.
So that got done..I rechecked all my wiring to make sure the crimps were good and the splices were through the right wires etc. That done I finished putting the rest of the engine compartment back together...power steering pump, cruise control, the fuse box/battery holder... you get the point. With everything re-installed I spliced in the ECU piggy-back E-manage that I intended on using once the engine was broken in and the turbo was good to go(I only mention this so you know that electrically this setup was modified beyond what it took to do the OBD1 to 2 conversions). Ahh....a couple more items I haven't mentioned yet which I think might need further scrutiny once I get to starting the engine for the first time.... I also have the intake mani replaced with the Skunk2 performance intake as well as the throttle body replaced. Unfortunately I didn't pay attention to what the stock throttle body looked like so I'm not sure if the MAP sensor normally installed differently than the D16y7 MAP sensor. I ended up using the D16y7 MAP sensor thinking that it wouldn't make a difference which I used, and that I had no means of connecting the hose lines on the b16 MAP to the new throttle body in any manner.
With all that said...the oil was added and the crank turned over to ensure we got some oil throughout the engine before starting it. Everything was checked a final time and then the moment arrived to finally start this baby up! When the ignition was keyed...the engine gurgled...but with some assistance from the throttle it revved up quite nicely. It sounded normal for not having the exhaust in place yet...and held a particular rpm steadily while below 2000...just to note before taking it on the road I never let the rpm go above 4000 for the inital 30 min of starting it up. As I mentioned above it took some extra gas to keep the engine going. As soon as the gas pedal was released the engine would gurgle down to a small rumbling spurt and cut itself off. I assume that this is due to the IACV and/or computer's response to the sensor. My friend thought it might be the intial setting of the cable going from the gas pedal to the throttle body, so we started up the car again and he adjusted the throttle body inital setting until the engine stayed rumbling between 750 and 1000 without my assistance behind the wheel. Secondly he also played with the MAP adjustments that can be done with the Profec-e01 that plugs into the e-manage(again i'm sorry for even mentioning the turbo parts...but want to give you the full picture incase I need to talk to the FI guru's for that stuff). After several 2 hour nights of doing this just so the engine got some brake-in time as I waited for the power steering pump bracket to show up(this was the only thing preventing us from taking out to the side streets for some initial testing and brake-in) I finally got the bracket and installed the pump and belts(let me tell you it took forever to get the right belt size for the a/c and the p/s).
The first ride around the block was jumpy....the engine or perhaps computer wasn't liking the air/fuel mixture being provided to it so the car was softly lurching as we rode along(I can't think of a better term..it was almost as if you repeatly hit the brakes softly so your head swayed back and forth as you go down the road). There were no sounds of mechanical trouble and no check engine light so far.
After doing one loop my friend gave me the honors and let me take the car out for round 2. This time he again had the MAP adjustments up in order to play around with the air/fuel mix at various rpms.. after 15 min or so of this and several other nights of playing around with it...he got the engine to smoothly run from 1000-4000 rpm while the car was moving along at a normal residential speed. We even managed to take the car to a gas station a good mile or so down the road without any issues. The first major problem though...was going above 4000 rpm. Luckily this happened while doing another run around the side streets of the neighborhood because the moment I went above 4000 the check engine light came in and the engine died down to a gurgle...I had no response to opening or shutting the throttle body. It was as if the ECU put the engine on lock-down...I don't know the technical side of this ECU at all so please help me here....The only way we got that to clear was to turn off the car completely..wait a little bit and restart the engine...which it would do as before with no problems and no check engine light.
We decided to make sure it wasn't a fluke and tried it again near a stop sign...the same thing happened.
We thought it might be a VTEC problem as we hadn't yet been able to get it to actuate...even though an option on E-manage showed that we should be able to force it to activate the VTEC at lower rpms..which we set to 2000 in order to make sure we could break in the engine at the more stressful level of the VTEC cam lobes. That was about where we were at when I came back after a long work day to be told the head gasket was blown. Trusting my friend to his knowledge and experience on this I believed him. He had already pulled the head and put a new head gasket in there and re-installed the head with the same head bolts from before.
Upon restarting the engine it would through a check engine light right off the start...and sounded horrible. Unfortunately I went through some shift-work at this time and was unable to be there for any further attempts at figuring out the problem on our own. I am currently the sole man on the project and have no experience with engine work...only a basic knowledge of all the parts and how they work. The other day I turned it on just to see how bad it was...I didn't even want to leave it rumbling at me for more than a second...it sounded like a dying engine that was having a tough time turning over. Again I'm no expert on the sounds an engine makes when it's not firing in a particular cylinder or causing any other problems...but it definately sounds bad.
If you need more information please ask me a specific question so I can try to focus on looking for a particular problem I might have missed. I haven't been able to figure out what the check engine light is due to since I have no means for jumpering the connector mentioned in another thread that allows you to read the number of blinks on it...but with some assisstance I could put something together for that.
Is this a problem beyond my ability to replace parts/make adjustments to the hardware?
Could the ECU not have the correct fuel maps etc? Or perhaps this piggy-back is a problem?
I would really appreciate any expert info you guys have. As it is I am currently looking into a day I would have available to take the car into a performance shop to have them take it out of my hands. If any of you know a good shop near Jacksonville, FL that I could tow the car to I would be grateful...so far my efforts via the phone book and online haven't given me good results.
Thank you for putting up with this long ramble...I am so close to getting this car working and don't want to throw out all the work and money I've put it in this beauty..even if I could still sell a lot of the parts used in the car.
01-05-2007, 11:16 AM
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on the passenger side by the ecu theres a two prong plug jump that with a paper clip, count the amount of times the light flashes
one long flash mean 10 short one mean 1
ex.. two long flashes and 1 short means= code 21
one long flash mean 10 short one mean 1
ex.. two long flashes and 1 short means= code 21
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zerobluex1
Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000)
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wtfisvtec??
Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000)
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