Ohmster

I have a '95 Civic EX VTECH with 140K miles on it and starting this car in the morning is getting harder and harder and this morning I got stuck and had to call a tow truck. I cannot take much more of this and need help how to find what the problem is, maybe some of you have had this problem and know what to do, I hope so.

When the car has been cold overnight (This is Florida in the summer so it does not really get "cold" here.) and I try to start the car in the morning, the starter engages and the car cranks and cranks and won't fire. I have to floor the gas and still it cranks and cranks, fires, misses, cranks, cranks, fires, misses, cranks, fires, catches, shudders, fires up, starts purring and then runs fine. Once started, it purrs like a kitten and runs perfectly. This has been going on every morning and this morning it fired, missed, fired, missed, with a HELL of a LOT of cranking and finally I stopped as I would run the battery out.

I put new plugs in it about 6 months ago, car had horrible care from last owner, took out 1 Bosch and 3 NGK plugs and put in new plugs proper. This morning I tried everything, after pulling each plug wire and putting them back, I could not get it to fire at all. I took out #4 plug wire, put a screwdriver into wire, held it near valve cover, and turned key on, then used a jumper wire to apply starter. The wire fired a nice spark over 1/4" long a few times, nothing seems wrong with spark. Only tested one plug though as this is awkward with only one person to do. I had it towed to my friend who is a mechanic and we put it on the charger and he cranked it for several seconds, it seemed like it would catch, it did, and it started and ran fine. He mentioned about the Main Relay going bad in these cars and before tow truck came, I took out my Main Relay, opened it, and resoldered the board inside. I am an electronic tech and although the solders were on their way to being bad, they were not bad enough to cause this problem, i.e.: no ring cracks.

My friend changed the Main Relay with another one, it was a bit larger and will not screw in place but it subs fine and the car works the same. He said to try this relay for a few days because he had a car doing the same thing, drove him nuts for days, and the relay fixed it. Car has been sitting in driveway for a couple hours and starting is getting hard again. Turned over several times before sputtering to life and then ran fine.

This morning I sprayed starting fluid into air cleaner output hose (Big hose from air cleaner to manifold with fuel injectors.), then ran inside, and tried to start car, no difference, it would not catch or fire at all. WTF, I got spark, sprayed ether into air intake, and then turned key on and ran starter and NOTHING??? How can that be?

I bet I am stuck again in the morning and will lose another day at work and I cannot afford this. Somebody please help, what is making this car not want to catch a spark or fire when starting it cold? Once it catches and starts, it literally purrs! You can shut it off and start it right back up again. No real problem after that. Only when cold it does not want to fire up. What to do, what to check, how can I fix this? Please help.

Thnx,
Ohmster

BlackoutVTi

Don't quote me on this, but it sounds like it could a fuel system problem. Your car may be having trouble building proper fuel pressure.

Start with the cheap stuff, and look at the fuel lines to see if there are any breaks. At 140K, it's quite possible that your fuel pump is waning/failing, so check that as well.

However, I can only offer guesses. I hope this helps you out.

Ohmster

I hear ya dude. You know, the mechanic friend did mention the fuel pressure, told me where the filter was on the firewall and showed me the nut you take off to measure the pressure, but we did not do it. Found the PCV valve was bad and the hose connecting it to the manifold was soft and compressed almost shut. We replaced both of them, the hose and the PVC valve. With the hose off, the car ran funky, raced and slowed, raced and slowed, while idling. New valve and hose made it run right again but still hard to start. Once he started it and saw how good it ran, I guess we ruled out the fuel pump and pressure as it runs so good once started.

Somebody I hope will come up with some simple tests that we can do to narrow it down, spark or fuel? That is where to start, which one is it? I guess timing also matters but since timing is a mechanical thing and once started, runs fine, so I don't think timing is an issue. How to test for spark or fuel? Put screwdriver from plug wire near valve cover, turn over engine, look for spark. Necessary to check each plug? Use starting fluid to check for fuel? I was at the auto store and like an *** I did not buy more starting fluid, I had better go and get a can of starting ether now so I will have it in the morning. Is it possible to use starting fluid on a Honda Civic with only one person? How to do it?

Thanks for your help, still need more help though. More people please chime in here if you can help. Thanks.

~Ohmster

BlackoutVTi

Ok, well I talked to my mechanic friend, and while he agrees that it's possible it could be a fuel pressure problem for a high mileage vehicle such as yours, it's exhibiting trademark starter issues.

For a failing starter, when it gets cold overnight, resistance builds up, and with the starter wire being so thick, the added resistance stacks up with the weak part. You should check for a possible loose or badly connected starter wire, and check to see if your starter is failing. Hope this helps. Bump for an almost-working Honda in distress.

Ohmster

I do need help but I cannot go with you on this one. I am not a mechanic (But I DID stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, LOL! ) but I am an electronic technician. I know about wires, motors, currents, etc. This starter starts right up and turns over the engine just fine. No slowing down, no click click, no running down the battery, none of that. The car just don't want to start worth a dam, is all. I already used a jumper to run the starter from the engine compartment while checking for spark. Good spark. good starter.

I actually have the starting problems solved, sort of. My mechanic friend and I replaced the spark plugs a while back, 6 months or more ago, so I never though to bother with them. But with water disappearing from the radiator every day, and the car so freaking hard to start, I had several people tell me it could be a bad head gasket. (OMG No!)

The only way to check for that is to do a compression test on all 4 cylinders and I asked my mechanic friend to come over and bring the compression tester, 20 minutes and we would be done.

Well we took out the plugs and as they were coming out, they did not look too good. I got a wire brush to clean them off but thought what the heck are we putting plugs like this back in the engine for? Spark plugs don't cost much, let's put in new ones, so we went to Advance Auto Parts and bought 4 new NGK plugs.

The pressure test went okay until we went from plug #4 to plug #1. Number 1 was so tight that it clicked and started snapping as we backed out the plug. NOT good. A tight plug will snap a little till it breaks loose but this one snapped all the way back out. Uh oh... We then tried to hand screw in the pressure tester hose and it would not go in, threads on spark plug hole ruined or damaged. Oh shoot! What now, I have to go to the doctor in the morning and no more car! No plug means no engine and no car! We called Advance for a spark plug chaser to clean out the threads and they said they did not have one for this Honda, try another store but it was late.

We went to my friend's shop and he had one but it was two sided, one side for small plugs like Honda and the other for larger plugs like GM. The nut to turn it with was so big it would not fit into the spark plug hole in the Honda valve cover. Oh no! Looking through his tool box, I spied a tap that looked just like the spark plug we needed to put back in. I picked it up and stared at it and he said it was for a KIA car, did not think it would work on a Honda. Is it for the spark plug I asked? Yes he said. Then it will work! Honda is a Jap car and all Jap cars use an ISO standard thread, it HAS to work! The diameters looked the same, the threads matched, he even had a caliper and they were the same, so we found a 12 point 10 MM socket and the tap fit right into it. We put that on an extension, applied honing oil to it, and carefully hand screwed it into the spark plug hole. It got tight and we had to use the ratchet now, very gently, and he had his hand on just the center of the ratchet, not near the end for much leverage. He slowly cranked the tap into the engine and could feel it gently cutting threads. Not too much please, only clean the threads, not make new ones!

After a while he was halfway into the cylinder and I said to back it out. He did and we tried the compression tester hose, it went right in. Tested the pressure and wrote it down. Put the new plug in and tightened it down. That particular plug got so hot that the electrode just about burned off of it, see the picture!



The plugs looked very bad, not 6 months old but looked like 3 years old! The pressure test looked pretty good:

#1 130
#2 130
#3 135
#4 120

I don't really see a blown head gasket in those readings. The new plugs fixed the starting problem though, car starts right up now. Now I have to find out where the water leak is because so far as I know, I still need to add water every day. In one or two days, open radiator and cannot even see visible water in the radiator so have to add more coolant. Not able to spot a leak yet, have to find out where it is going.

The mechanic friend brought over a pressure tester for the radiator but the adapter would not fit on the Honda radiator. We had to push down on it while pumping and that is no good, no way to see if pressure is getting lost like that, but we did get the pressure test on the cylinders done and they seem alright.

Any advice or tips would be appreciated. Problem now is water loss every day or two in cooling system and what caused so much damage to spark plugs in such short a time as 6 months? The car has overheated several times to where we reached H on the temperature gauge but quickly shut off the engine and added more coolant to cool it down.

Advice, tips, help, anyone?

Thanks,


Modified by Ohmster at 8:24 PM 8/3/2008


Modified by Ohmster at 8:24 PM 8/3/2008

rvanders37

sounds like the fuel pressure is leaking down over night. that could be from a fuel filter or the fuel pump. you can test first. there is an orifice high on the firewall under the hood. remove the 10mm bolt and connect a pressure gauge. the one for testing cylinder pressure will work fine. then crank the engine and go read the pressure. doesn't matter if it starts or not. the pressure will need to be over 10 psi for it to crank but nominally it should be up around 21- 30 psi with a good fuel pump. so if it's low change the fuel filter first. it could be clogged. then retest. if it's still low change the fuel pump. then retest again.

Pothole987

Ok, my guess would be either the fuel filter is clogged up really bad and takes awhile for the engine to build up enough fuel to start or headgasket is leaking. Have you checked to see if theres while smoke coming out of the tailpipe? with it using that much coolant well there is definetly a problem.

Former User

Old thread.

Pothole987

Well now i feel like a douche. Lol

Former User

Sorry. Didn't want to make you feel bad. Just needed to alert everyone that the OP is likely no longer interested in solving this problem.

Chetr

I have 86 CRX si, with same problem. New fuel filter on the firewall, ck'ed out and resoldered main relay, gone to contact on fuel pump to ck voltage when switch is turn on for the first 2 sec. Voltage is there.... no sound for fuel pump......(need to replace electric fuel pump).....funny thing those, after compression starting my CRX, the vehicle runs fine, after it warms up, it starts everytime this is all before replacing the fuel pump......can not figure this out.....good luck....


AS Of 09/22/2010, Electric Fuel Pump has been replaced and My Problem w Morning start, IS FIXED........PROBLEM SOLVED.....GOOD LUCK TO YA!

theriteman

I also have a 1995 Honda Civic. 1.5L, sedan, automatic, 163,000 miles. I have having a tough time getting it started when it is cold. It has been having problems ever since someone stole it last winter. I have done the following:

1. Replaced the fuel lines, the rotar, the engine cap, the ignition system, the fuel filter, the starter, the brake pads, the electrical wires, and gave it a tune-up. I also replaced a passenger side window and have been giving it regular oil changes.

It runs great. Yes, the steering column is a little off and one of the airbags is out, but that will cost me $2600 to fix and it is not worth it.

However, it still takes multiple cranks to get it to start in the morning. When it is warm, it starts fine. I had a mechanic check the fuel pressure. It was fine. He spent 8 hours examining everything on the car and said everything was registering fine. But the next morning, same problem.

What to do?